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Imagine a landlocked city centre building (14 floors), surrounded by other tall bbuildings with no suitable outdoor space. It has a small steel cylinder cage on a flat roof. (LPG, Acetylene and O2). Signage, cylinder separation and distance from drains and ignition sources re OK. Info for fire service is very good. I am relatively happy (except for manual handling issues which ain't my problem)
My question is, bearing in mind the height above ground & exposed elevation of this cage, should it be earthed for lightening protection? (The building is, but not specifically the cage)
A valid concern or am I being over the top??
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Would that be a Faraday cage then?
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If the building has a lightening conductor or other object at a height greater than the cage, then don't see a problem.
If the cage is positioned at the highest point on the roof, then I would take action.
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Faraday does not apply if the objects in the cage are in contact with the cage, the Faraday principle would only apply if the containers in the cage are on a rubber mat in the cage, I.E rubber wheel of a car Faraday Effect of a motor vehicle. The building is earthed and with the cage in contact with it would also be partially earthed but if there is possibility of it being hit by lightening then I would suggest earthling the cage it self.
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You state a flat roof, has this got a membrane down? if so what material is the membrane, this could be sufficient earthing?
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The word by the way, is lightning. "Lightening" means making lighter.
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Thanks to all, especially Ron, obviously the IOSH resident Weatherman :)
There is an earthing strap on the roof about 10m away, so I may suggest connecting the cage to that.
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messyshaw wrote:Thanks to all, especially Ron, obviously the IOSH resident Weatherman :)
There is an earthing strap on the roof about 10m away, so I may suggest connecting the cage to that.
messy, NOOOOOOOOO! PLEASE DO NOT make random connections to the lightning protction system! You would divert currents away from their desired destination and could cause serious damage! We are talking about serious voltages here. Also and speaking as a qualified electrical engineer and electrical contractor, there are very few who understand lightning systems fully, me being one! As one of the requirements of professionalism is knowing your limits this is why I am not explaining what you should do, but suggesting you get further advice or undertake further investigations. IF you really want to connect this try Furse for advice or the lightning conductor installers for the building. What is the expected incidence of lightning? How high is this cage? It is metal but is it more of a conductor than those things around it? Is it higher, this more likely to be struck? If you earth it will it become a lightning conductor which is not really what you want is it? I tried to reply earlier but the site is broken on my pc at the moment, all other sites & forums I use are OK, this one don't work! Must be IOSH getting their own back for my previous comments that were deleted!
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Paul
Thanks for the post. As you can see, electrical earthing is not my specialty. You are absolutely right, I will accept that this topic is beyond my limitations seek assistance on this one
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Messy, How do you typically address lightning as an ignition source in FRA, where applicable?
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Based on what I have read- I think this is a classic case of "understanding ones own limittions". I would advise on obtaining the assistance of a specialist contractor who can advise and design such a facility. It is very unwise to randomly connect to an existing lightning protection system without a design having been done as you may inadvertantly affect the capability of the existing installation. There is clearly doubt so go to a specialist to see if your concerns are valid. Regards from the sand pit Calum
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bleve wrote:If the building has a lightening conductor or other object at a height greater than the cage, then don't see a problem.
If the cage is positioned at the highest point on the roof, then I would take action. If the cage is at the same height or higher than the existing lightning protection system’s components (strike termination devices), the cage maybe subjected to a direct strike. If the cage mesh is 5 mm dia or more, it can serve as a strike termination device and it can be bonded or grounded into the existing system via a sheathed copper conductor CSA of 50 mm^2 . Not sure, I would want to set the cage up as a strike termination device, given the intended use. Alternately, the cage can be placed under a zone of protection of the strike termination devices. For my money, I would prefer to locate within an LPZ. Refer to BS 62305
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Why not store the LPG, Acetylene and O2 etc somewhere else and remove the cage?
David
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I am not competent in assessing lightning protection and make that fact known in my FRA findings if appropriate. However, I do assess whether lightning protection has been fitted and whether it's been serviced.
If not, I consider the design, use and height of the premises and it's neighbours, and where appropriate advise the RP to seek further assistance from a competent contractor.
I refer to BS62305, but only insofar as this is a UK accepted benchmark for such protection.
This particular case is slightly different as I think everyone will agree it is unusual to find a cylinder cage in such a location. I have never consider earthing a cyl cage, but due was concerned about the potentially vulnerable position of this one - thus the question on this forum.
The cage cannot be located elsewhere as this premises has no outside space.
Thanks to all for your assistance
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If you are going to connect a cable to the existing lightning conductor (if this is an acceptable measure), check what the material is first.
The conductors on our building are lead; this is incompatible with copper, since they form a galvanic couple.
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Jane, Maybe you should alert all manufacturers and suppliers of lead covered copper lightning conductors and air terminals to this fact.
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If the lead completely covers the copper, there will be no problem. The galvanic problem will only appear if they are in electrical contact and are exposed simultaneously to wet conditions.
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