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toe  
#1 Posted : 27 May 2011 22:32:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
toe

Hi All, If a HSE inspector takes a statement from you, are you entitled to make/take a copy of the signed statement? PS not sure if this makes a difference but the question refers to Scotland (scots law).
Steve-IOM  
#2 Posted : 28 May 2011 22:07:13(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Steve-IOM

If an inspector takes a voluntary or Section 20 statement he is likely to use you as a prosecution witness in a criminal case. You then will be called as a witness to give evidence in a case which may be months or years after the event. The inspector wants his case to go through and you to perform as a witness and not to forget what you said to him. If you give a statement [read it, check it, amend it, make sure it is your words and is factual] ask nicely for a copy if written out or a typed copy to be sent to your home address.
djupnorth  
#3 Posted : 29 May 2011 12:27:15(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
djupnorth

Toe, Strictly speaking the Inspector does not have to give you a copy of your statement. However, you are entitled to read and if necessary amend any written statement (or have read out to you any verbal statement) you have given before you sign it. You are also entitled to take the statement away (e.g. into another room) to read it in private (or to discuss it with your solicitor/Union Representative/friend) before signing it. At that stage you are quite within your rights to take a copy. If the statement is taken at a police station/HSE's offices, you should ask for a copy before signing the statement. If you fail to ask for a copy at the time of making the statement, there is no duty on the HSE to provide you with a copy except as part of advance disclosure in any prosecution. Always ask for/make a copy of your statement before signing it. I hope this helps. DJ
Graham Bullough  
#4 Posted : 29 May 2011 21:33:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Graham Bullough

Toe From experience of taking numerous statements from accident victims and witnesses over 10 years while I was an HSE inspector, I can advise that any inspector taking a statement should first explain who he or she is to the interviewee and summarise why a statement is being taken. Few people about to have such an interview have ever encountered an inspector before and most aren't quite sure what HSE is about. Therefore, it's important for an inspector to explain that they do not act for the interviewee's employer, line manager or an insurance company, etc, and that the statement is for HSE and not copied to the employer or anyone else - unless it is ultimately used for court proceedings. This and a summary of the process to follow helps to put the prospective interviewee at ease, and surely benefits both the inspector and the interviewee. Perhaps things have changed since I left HSE over 20 years ago, but the usual process is for the inspector to ask appropriate questions in a logical manner and then write down the responses. If a response isn't clear or doesn't make sense, it's up to the inspector to reframe his/her questions during this part of the process. At the end the inspector should recite the written statement back to the interviewee to ascertain that what has been written down is correct and true. During this stage some of the written statement may need crossing out or amending - as may also have been the case during the main interview. I recall that crossed out and added parts should be initialled or signed by the inspector and also the interviewee to avoid the possibility of any later suggestion that the inspector may have doctored the statement afterwards. After the reading back of the statement and making of any amendments, the witness and the inspector both sign the handwritten statement. When I took statements, sometimes a witness or someone accompanying them (with my consent) would ask if they could have a copy of their statement. In nearly all cases , I could see no problem with such a request, and therefore added the request to the end of the handwritten statement. I would explain to such a witness that they were under no obligation to show their copy of the statement to anybody. However, in the case of accident victims, I suggested that it might be appropriate for them to show it to a union representative or solicitor. Subsequently, a typed copy of the handwritten statement would be made. If an interviewee requested a copy, he or she would be sent a copy of the typed version. It's worth adding that interviewees who are employees ought to be advised that inspectors have legal power to take statements from them (whether their employer likes it or not), either alone or with one or more other people present if deemed to be acceptable by the inspector. Also, employers cannot penalise employees for giving statements to inspectors, or afterwards grill them about the matters covered during interviews.
johnmurray  
#5 Posted : 30 May 2011 00:47:47(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
johnmurray

Unless the law has changed; you do not HAVE to give a statement. Talking to an inspector confidentially is likely to be detrimental to your [employment] health. When all else fails, forget !
imwaldra  
#6 Posted : 30 May 2011 09:26:12(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
imwaldra

Toe, My belief is that all the previous replies relate to the position in England/Wales. My understanding is that in Scotland the statement taken by HSE is for the Procurator Fiscal and you are therefore NOT allowed to have a copy at the time. I'm honestly not sure what happens if you then ask the PF for a copy. You could of course really upset Alec Salmond by taking a test case to the UK Supreme Court, pointing out the possible deficit in natural justice here in Scotland by comparison with other parts of UK - you will probably be aware that 'interference' by that court in the long-standing legal arrangements in Scotland is currently a party-political issue!
Shineon55  
#7 Posted : 30 May 2011 13:15:31(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Shineon55

Toe, as imwaldra said, you won't get a copy after giving a statement, either voluntary or S20. I don't think you would be able to obtain a copy of the statement from the COPFS, although the defence would eventually get it, in the event of a not guilty plea and under the rules of disclosure in Scotland.
Graham Bullough  
#8 Posted : 31 May 2011 15:36:37(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Graham Bullough

Though the legal system in Scotland is different to that in England & Wales, my recollections (from ten years spent working for HSE wholly in Scotland) were that it didn't affect the status of and procedures regarding statements taken by HSE inspectors in Scotland. The 1974 HSW Act and related legislation applies throughout the UK. Though HSE inspectors in Scotland inevitably liaise with procurators fiscal (PFs) about prosecutions, HSE exists in its own right in Scotland and is not a wing of the PF service. One aspect of Scottish law which does affect HSE's work is the need for corroboration, i.e. double proof, of each element of evidence required for prosecutions. Therefore, during investigations of accidents and other circumstances which will or might lead to court proceedings, HSE inspectors based in Scotland tend to take statements from more witnesses than their counterparts in England & Wales. Also, not all statements taken by HSE inspectors are intended for use in prosecutions. It was standard practice during my time for inspectors to take statements before serving improvement or prohibition notices. For example, when dealing with an employer with premises which had insufficient or no heating, a brief joint statement would be taken from two or even three employees to confirm the situation, what sort of work they did and how inadequate heating affected their dexterity, e.g. when operating woodworking machines. Also, the taking of such a statement (along with the associated brief interruption of work) helped to affirm to the employer that the inspector meant business and that the subsequent enforcement notice wasn't something to be ignored. It's appropriate to qualify my comment above about statements in support of enforcement notices. It was standard practice for inspectors in the same HSE area as me (effectively Eastern & Northern Scotland), but I cannot speak for other areas. Therefore, please could any other forum users, perhaps past or present HSE inspectors, confirm whether or not it was/is standard HSE practice throughout the UK?
SW  
#9 Posted : 31 May 2011 16:32:37(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
SW

I know of a Company that had an accident last year and the Inspector interviewed six people - all asked for a copy of their statement at the time but were refused. The Inspector said something like "Can't have one at this point in time"
toe  
#10 Posted : 01 June 2011 00:26:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
toe

Hi All, Thanks for your replies, I think that most people may have clicked why I asked this question. The HSE inspector refused me permission to take a copy of the statement I made. I am interested on the response that replied: prior to you signing the statement you may take it into another room and then copy it! If this is the case maybe this advice could help people in the future. Fingers crossed, I wont need to see the statement ever again. Regards, Toe
Steve-IOM  
#11 Posted : 01 June 2011 09:15:21(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Steve-IOM

Toe Write a nice letter to him requesting a copy of your statement and keep a copy of your letter. Regards
ajb  
#12 Posted : 01 June 2011 09:25:25(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
ajb

Hope this link works but if not look up para 106 of the HSE Enforcement Guide "Releasing copies of witness statements" www.hse.gov.uk/enforce/e...s-witness.htm#P169_35156 AJB
Graham Bullough  
#13 Posted : 03 September 2016 16:32:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Graham Bullough

toe Out of curiosity (alias sheer nosiness!), did you ever get a copy of the statement you gave to the inspector?!! To save observant forum users from commenting that this thread started some 5 years ago, I'd better explain that I came across it earlier today while doing a search of the forums for some particular information about statements to HSE inspectors. Also, though a few forum users don't seem happy about people responding to old threads, there's evidently no time limit for posting responses to them. Also, some old threads contain notably useful information, so sometimes it's more constructive to resurrect them than to start new threads! Graham B
toe  
#14 Posted : 03 September 2016 17:44:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
toe

I did not get a copy of the statement @ #10 we were fortunate that the case went cold and I never needed to see it again.
A Brown  
#15 Posted : 03 September 2016 18:02:50(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
A Brown

For what it's worth, I was an HSE inspector in Scotland until 3 years ago, and never allowed copies of statements to be taken by witnesses. Statements are the posession of COPFS, and not the 'property' of HSE to give out. They re only indicative of what may be said in court - if a witness tells the truth, why would they need the statement to refer to? If they forget before a later trial, the statement will be taken as the truth when it is put to them at that time. Al
Roundtuit  
#16 Posted : 03 September 2016 20:51:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Since yesterday I have slept.. the detail of what occurred during the day is becoming obscured by the mist of time, two/three years from now I will struggle to even tell you if I was at work during the day or travelling or on vacation without referencing records. To be placed in the dock confronted by a document I was prevented from holding a copy at the time of taking looks contrary to natural justice. With such in mind if I refuse to sign a document I am not allowed to hold a copy of can it still be used? Just thinking of every time I have asked the FD for a signature - first thing post signing he heads to the copier (based on the same consideration two/three years from now did he actually sign that contract?)
Roundtuit  
#17 Posted : 03 September 2016 20:51:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Since yesterday I have slept.. the detail of what occurred during the day is becoming obscured by the mist of time, two/three years from now I will struggle to even tell you if I was at work during the day or travelling or on vacation without referencing records. To be placed in the dock confronted by a document I was prevented from holding a copy at the time of taking looks contrary to natural justice. With such in mind if I refuse to sign a document I am not allowed to hold a copy of can it still be used? Just thinking of every time I have asked the FD for a signature - first thing post signing he heads to the copier (based on the same consideration two/three years from now did he actually sign that contract?)
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