I have been informed today that the area LFB officer has recommended the removal of fire extinguishers from a block of residential (7) bedsits with communal areas. I seem to recall a discussion on this subject in the past, so forgive me if I am digging up old ground. However, whilst I appreciate that members of the public are not trained in fire fighting techniques is does seem a bit drastic to remove all the fire extinguishers. I thought the FRA was supposed to identify the risks, has anyone completed a FRA recommending the removal of fire extinguishers? Cheers - Ray

http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/pdf/FireSafety.pdf latest lacors guidance suggest they are either not needed, or if they are provided they are dry power (multi purpose) and situated on each floor

RayRapp, What was the reasoning for the removal of the Fire Extinguishers? Phil.

Phil It appears that the LFB would rather residents escape from a fire than use the fire fighting equipment, particularly if residents have not been trained in fire fighting techniques. I can see some logic to this argument but, surely if it is a small fire (archetypal waste paper bin), it would be better to distinguish the fire than have a serious situation unfold where people may get killed. I can see the headlines - fire in hotel could not be extinguished because the fire extinguishers had been removed! There is no legal requirement to remove fire extinguishers. The person completing the FRA is to determine whether fire extinguishers are to be removed or not. I know if it was my building I would be unhappy with the removal of fire fighting equipment. Nothing seems simple any more, or am I having a bad day?

Bob As I said, I can see the logic, but what is wrong with keeping the status quo and advising residents to evacuate when the fire alarm sounds? You cannot force someone to use a fire extinguisher, it's possible a person has the basic knowledge to use a fire extinguisher safely - after all, it's not a gun! I'm not comfortable with the removal of them altogether. The residents I referred to are provided information on fire and emergency situations on induction. Plus there is appropriate signage in communal areas.

One reason I was offered some years ago for the removal of fire extinguishers from the communal areas of a residential premise was to reduce the risk of an occupant using extinguishers wrongly - a reason I agree with. The original post by the way was enquiring about an issue in a 'residential' property and not an office building.

I am a little concerned that the LFB have recommended anything, as their role is to audit fire safety management (including the suitability of the FRA) against the RR(FS)O 2005 and enforce provisions of the Order if necessary. I would be interested if this was official/written advice from a fire safety dept or casual advice from an operational crew. If the RP wants to remove FFE, then he must justify it, and the LFB should determine whether it is a suitable action for the specific circumstances. It is not their (LFB's) role to recommend or act unilaterally away from the Govt guides. This is dangerous territory as it's the RP's responsibility and not the enforcing authority to make provision to satisfy the Order. What would happen in the event of a serious injury or death in a premises where FFE would have helped, but the LFB recommended it's withdrawal?? The LFB would back track this FFE 'recommendation' quicker than an MP switching car seats with his wife when caught speeding :)

Chris, what odds did they give you for a fire breaking out? Seriously, this so-called advice from the LFB appears to be in keeping with the article referenced in an earlier post - http://www.timesonline.c...ws/uk/article3525380.ece Not wishing to 'open a can of worms' but the Lacors document also referenced earlier suggests that fire extinguishers may be removed, however if they are retained they should be of a dry powder type. Great, the landlord of the premises I will be inspecting has Water/CO2! I think that Ian has also made a valid point about fire fighters going on strike. Not that I will mention it directly to a LFB officer. Surely, regardless of what advice is considered best practice, it is up to the person completing the FRA to determine whether FFE is to be retained insitu or not? That for me is the crux of the issue against some blanket rule.

Chris, this is about members of the public - who are at work - and would you expect them to fight a fire just because they are at work? I have carried out FRAs on small (2/3 floors) blocks of flats and have recommended FE removal, and had that ratified by the local fire enforcement bods in a number of counties. We all know the dangers as they crop up in every training course - staying to fight when you should be leaving, not all smoke is visible, it's the smoke that gets you rather than the flames, you can get freezer burns from co2 FEs, etc etc. This being domestic premises, no-one will presumably have had recent training - or any - on correct use of FEs, and may have inhaled something or have had alcohol, either of which can obviously cloud judgement. This is sleeping accommodation but is not for most purposes a workplace with certain caveats, but the postie is only there for a few minutes. The extinguishers get vandalised and abused and removed, so when you need them they are either empty or missing. When they are taken off the wall, residents come back from the pub and fall over them as they are left in the wrong place. Get rid. In my opinion anyway.