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auntysmash  
#1 Posted : 03 June 2011 08:54:15(UTC)
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auntysmash

I’m probably not the first person to be in this position (or the last), but I’m experiencing some confusion over interpretation of the CDM regs…… We’re trying to determine if the installation of a new production line within a factory falls within CDM. The line is basically a connected set of machines which perform various automated cutting, welding and routing operations to plastic profile. CDM lists ‘fixed plant’ within the definition of a ‘structure’ – but would a production line be considered as fixed plant? Also, the regs say that ‘construction work’ includes the installation etc. of services – the production line will have air, electricity and telecoms fitted, but these are purely connections to existing systems within the factory and not new installations as such. So even if the production line doesn’t fall under CDM, do the associated services? We have asked a CDM-C who is covering some other construction work on the site and their response was that they didn’t have the competence to advise on machinery installations – so we're still none the wiser..... Any help with the interpretation of this situation from the construction experts out there would be greatly appreciated, otheriwise we'll have to 'play safe' and assume it does fall under the regs!
Safety Smurf  
#2 Posted : 03 June 2011 09:17:41(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Safety Smurf

I am fully prepared to be corrected on this but I would consider fixed plant to mean heating and cooling systems, etc. That plant which serves the building rather than plant for some other purpose, housed within the building. However, if the installation is so significant as to make a material alteration to the building it may become a notifiable project.
RayRapp  
#3 Posted : 03 June 2011 09:34:59(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

Aunty I agree with Smurf, in that stand alone plant and machinery in a factory should not fall under CDM. There will always be some grey areas regarding interpretation, so I default to the 'spirit' of the CDM regulations, which was intended to regulate the construction and building industries. Ray
firesafety101  
#4 Posted : 03 June 2011 09:42:58(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

Aunty, I'll stick my neck out, not too far mind, and agree with Smurf and Ray. Not surpried the CDM C you asked would not provide the answer, probably because it is not under CDM. If it was he would probably know about it? Good luck.
SP900308  
#5 Posted : 03 June 2011 09:53:50(UTC)
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SP900308

auntysmash - Are any structural modifications necessary to facilitate the installation?
Jim Sweetman  
#6 Posted : 03 June 2011 11:24:42(UTC)
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Jim Sweetman

Auntie has picked on the standard 'old chestnut' - what regs apply? If one reg does not apply, there are a few others that will!!! I go along with RayRapp and suggest it is best to look at 'in principle'. It's more a case of how will it be put together safely and can it then be used, maintained, cleaned etc. safely. In most cases, if any tools are used, CDM application can be interpreted as being applicable somewhere. The telling point of this will be if the work on site is expected to take 30 working days or more or involve 500 manworking days, which could invoke the Notifiable part of CDM - and associated input such as CDDM-Cs and Principal Contractors.
auntysmash  
#7 Posted : 03 June 2011 11:36:27(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
auntysmash

Many thanks to everyone for the replies. No structural alterations will be necessary, just bolting machinery and guard fences etc. to the floor. In terms of man days, it should fall outside the CDM 'notifiable' requirements anyway. So, it's just design, layout, usability and contractor management to sort out now then - that can't be too hard can it!
SP900308  
#8 Posted : 03 June 2011 12:47:20(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
SP900308

I'd suggest CDM does apply. Refering to the ACoP regarding the things CDM does not apply to, by inference anything else does?! Paper umbrella time :)
Mike Stowell  
#9 Posted : 03 June 2011 14:05:05(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Mike Stowell

ACOP reg 2 (b) states "general maintenance of fixed plant, except when this is done as part of other construction work, or it involves substantial dismantling or alteration of fixed plant which is large enough to be a structure in its own right, for example structural alteration of a large silo; complex chemical plant; power station generator or large boiler". Having worked on a number of lager plant installations that fall into this definition of the regulation It is open to interpretation. If the Project installation will last over 30 days or 500 person hours the project would become notifiable ( only if it falls within the definition of construction work that is). CDM is not just about construction, it includes the design, maintenance, accessibility and eventual decommissioning. Ask the team a number of questions like how do we access areas for maintenance, how do we replace parts or all of the plant, what access or equipment will we need to maintain it, do we need to building lifting beams or eye bolts, do we need access walkways for safe inspection or maintenance activities the list goes on. Even if CDM does not apply by notification or definition it would be sensible to manage the installation in the spirit of CDM.
SP900308  
#10 Posted : 03 June 2011 14:20:45(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
SP900308

Mike, Similarly I was involved with a Material Recycling Facility install project. We got on board (CDM-C) way too late. The designer hadn't considered how maintenance of the conveyor belt (four metres high and unguarded) should be carried out safely! Additionally, the two 500Kg motors were situated in such a position, that removal was nigh on impossible. Finally, little consideration was given to the manual 'pickers' with regards to the Workplace Regs.
boblewis  
#11 Posted : 03 June 2011 23:23:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
boblewis

The answer is yes , yes and yes again. You are doing construction work and thus CDM applies - it simply remains to decide if it is notifiable or not. You are supplying power and other services to structures that while not large necessarily are interconnected and will require some other works. The question re plant in a factory and its removal from CDM only applies to maintenance NOT installation Bob
djupnorth  
#12 Posted : 06 June 2011 19:53:47(UTC)
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djupnorth

I agree with Bob on this one. Regards. DJ
Ron Hunter  
#13 Posted : 08 June 2011 11:10:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Whereas I favour the more cautious and conditional approach suggested by Mike Stowell! I don't believe the production line installation of several discrete machines as originally described above would determine that any piece of kit is large enough to be considered a "structure" in its own right. There are of course matters of interpretation. One test could be to ask whether anything in the Project will end up with its own H&S File (i.e. considered as a significant structure). All that said, and as others have stated here and in the past, if you apply the principles of CDM to the Project you won't go far wrong. Whereas you won't appoint a CDM-C, there are always going to be significant design issues to consider - with reference to HASAWA Section 6.
bob youel  
#14 Posted : 08 June 2011 11:54:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bob youel

Noting the info given I would say that CDM applies [irrespective of notification parameters] Irrespective of CDM the management regs, environmental, fire and all the other laws still apply so U still need a management system
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