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dazholl  
#1 Posted : 05 June 2011 11:40:50(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
dazholl

Any help on the following will be appreciated.

I am employed by a double glazing installation company who use the services of up to 30 x self-employed two man installation teams in local authority owned houses.

Is it the company responsibility to conduct regular weekly toolbox talks to these guys working on the companies behalf. The logistics of carrying out these is proving very difficult.
Betta Spenden  
#2 Posted : 05 June 2011 12:28:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Betta Spenden

The simple answer is not that simple. Like all health and safety issues it’s all about looking at your processes, your hazards and the associated risks. The deciding how they apply to you organisation and implementing suitable control measures. Sadly there is no one simple answer/solution.

Yes you do have a duty of care, so something needs to be done, but so do the self employed fitters who would be classed as contractors, they also have a duty of care (Section 3 of the HSWA74). So any approach to health and safety (including toolbox talks) needs to be a joint approach.

Weekly toolbox talks seem to be a bit excessive, monthly sessions are more reasonable I think. Deliver them too often and I think that there is a risk of getting to "burn out point" too soon. The trouble is, if it all goes Pete Tonge can you prove that you did what a reasonable employer should have done at the time? Toolbox talks are not the only solution. Neither for that matter is getting the contractor to totally sign off the health and safety issues as being their responsibility carte blanche.

You mentioned working for a local authority. That may actually be your driving force behind the need to start delivering tool box talks and undertaking site inspections (combining health, safety, environment and quality issues). Many LA’s are now filtering out contractors such as yours that do not have ISO 9001, 14001 and a robust health and safety management system in place. My experience is that the requirement to maintain an ISO or OHSAS standard is sadly often the only reason why tool box talks and site visits are undertaken.
RayRapp  
#3 Posted : 05 June 2011 20:38:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

Further to Betta's post, the company who engages the self-employed operatives will have a duty to ensure their health, safety and welfare under section 2 or 3 of HSWA, depending whether they are deemed to be employees or contractors. There is no legal requirement to provide TBTs, except perhaps a spurious link to the provision of training.

Why people in industry feel the need to constantly deliver TBTs I do not know, they are not the panacea some people think they are. The provision of training and information could be achieved in many different ways and mediums. Presumably method statements are provided for the work? If so, these are likely to assist more than a TBT in my opinion.
Ron Hunter  
#4 Posted : 06 June 2011 00:03:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Betta Spenden wrote:

"Many LA’s are now filtering out contractors such as yours that do not have ISO 9001, 14001"

Unfortunately LAs and other Public Bodies are forbidden by public procurement legislation from applying such level of discrimination (although it does appear some LAs are unaware of this!)
Betta Spenden  
#5 Posted : 06 June 2011 18:07:10(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Betta Spenden

Unfortunately LAs and other Public Bodies are forbidden by public procurement legislation from applying such level of discrimination (although it does appear some LAs are unaware of this!)


Good point. Not being able to speak Welsh should not hinder you getting a job in certain parts of the UK either…..

And que awkward silence and tumble weed…….
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