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Thundercliffe26308  
#1 Posted : 06 June 2011 09:00:20(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Thundercliffe26308

This is causing some heated conversations at work, could nay one offer any idaes advice? The four day first aid course has to be renewed every 3 years... the one day (appointed person/emegency first aider) course...anually.... is there any requirement to have this renewed every year? Seems like abit of a money spinner (not that the money is an issue) because i have to to renew the I day course every year it actually costs more than the 4 day course. And the amount of information/responsibility that needs to be learnt...on the 4 day course, is far more than the 1 day course; so as the people on the 1 day course do not have as much information to retain why would they be required to up date every year?
Kate  
#2 Posted : 06 June 2011 09:12:30(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

The HSE also "strongly advise" an annual refresher in between the 3 year requalifications - so it's supposed to be an annual refresher for all.
firesafety101  
#3 Posted : 06 June 2011 09:12:42(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

Sorry to bring you the bad news bit its all changed now. Three day course with a one day refresher every year - I think?
MB1  
#4 Posted : 06 June 2011 09:28:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
MB1

It's a recommendation not absolute rule
Bob Shillabeer  
#5 Posted : 06 June 2011 10:57:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Bob Shillabeer

When did the first aid regs change then? The law is as set out by the first aid regs not what the organisations that get paid say is the requirement. Three yearly training for first aid at work people with one day for the lesser qualified standard. Read the First Aid at Work Regs and work to that. If your employer is willing to allow first aiders an annual refresher then go for it provided you feel it worthwhile, but there is no legal duty to meet this level.
Barlow30820  
#6 Posted : 06 June 2011 11:17:39(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Barlow30820

The rulings on the qualifications came about October 2010. This was as a result of consultations with the Resus council UK, HSE, training centres and trainers. Reasoning behind the move to optional, but highly recommended annual 1/2 day refresher for all, was because during a three year period, the length of qualification, there have on many occassions been changes in medical procedures, through research and pracitse, and it was felt that if 1st aiders and appointed/emergency 1st aiders did not utilise their skills in the intervening period, then both knowledge and skills would seriously lessen.
Kate  
#7 Posted : 06 June 2011 11:46:03(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

Personally I feel it's better to work to the HSE guidance (unless you can justify not doing so) than to the letter of the law. And that's annual refreshers.
Bob Shillabeer  
#8 Posted : 06 June 2011 12:19:47(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Bob Shillabeer

What is legally required and what is recommended are two entirely different things. You must comply with the law, thats the first point to achieve. The second is only strongly recommended therefore has no force in practice whatsoever. I would cjoose to comply with the law as the first standard and then look at the risks within the workplace and balance that against the level of change in first aid practice and then decide if the additional training and costs are worthwhile. There is often a money making gambit in alot of these recommendations but the employer needs to decide on a calcualted basis if it is worthwhile.
Kate  
#9 Posted : 06 June 2011 12:28:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

Bob, the strong recommendation is by HSE - do you really think this is a money-making gambit on their part? And that HSE recommendations have "no force in practice"?
achrn  
#10 Posted : 06 June 2011 13:02:49(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
achrn

Thundercliffe26308 wrote:
This is causing some heated conversations at work, could nay one offer any idaes advice? The four day first aid course has to be renewed every 3 years... the one day (appointed person/emegency first aider) course...anually.... is there any requirement to have this renewed every year?
There's a bit of a mix-up in that question, I think, in that appointed person and emergency first aider are two different roles with different requirements. My understanding is: First Aid at Work is the 3 day (18 hours) course. You get a certificate and/or card with words such as "Approved for the purposes of the Health & Safety (First Aid) Regulations" and have an HSE reference number. FAW expires after 3 years and the refresher is a shorter course. More frequent refreshers are recommended but not legally required. Emergency First Aid at Work is the one day (6 hours) course for lower-risk workplaces. EFAW expires after 3 years and refresher is just to do the whole thing again. More frequent refreshers are recommended but not legally required. Appointed Person doesn't require a course at all, is only for low risk workplaces with small number of people, and the appointed person is basically just the bod designated to look after the first aid box and call an ambulance - they don't have first aid competence. Off-shore is different. Diving operations are different.
Bob Shillabeer  
#11 Posted : 06 June 2011 14:30:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Bob Shillabeer

The point is the law specifies what the first aid at work competence is not the recommendation of the HSE. Parliament makes the law not the HSE. The HSE simply apply it as written. Before the minimum training requirement can change Parlimanet must amend the legislation. Therefore the minimum remains three years. An annual refrsher may well be a good thing but not legally required as simple as that.
Reed21854  
#12 Posted : 06 June 2011 15:15:53(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Reed21854

We have decided as an organisation not to go down the road of the recommended annual refresher first aid courses as it is not a legal requirement, and I don't think you could be criticised for complying with the law as it stands.
Bob Shillabeer  
#13 Posted : 06 June 2011 17:02:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Bob Shillabeer

Precisely my point Reed.
Canopener  
#14 Posted : 06 June 2011 18:28:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Canopener

Going back to the original post, and aside from all of the other responses, the 2 HSE recognised first aid courses are: 1. FAW (3 days - NOT 4) 2. EFAW (1 day). BOTH are valid for 3 years (para 62 of the guidance) EFAW and appointed persons are 2 DIFFERENT things. The first is a first aider the other is an ...... appointed person. The latter does NOT need any first aid training (para 69) The REGS haven't changed, the guidance has. Some form of refresher seems sensible to me. I don't see that the HSE recommendation can be construed as a money spinner. Not to them at least! Our NPLQ do refresher training every month.
Thundercliffe26308  
#15 Posted : 07 June 2011 08:26:40(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Thundercliffe26308

thank you all for your comments and information.
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