Rank: Forum user 
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Hi Guys,
I am having a discussion here with one of my colleagues regarding rescue from confined space.
We will have 2 guys going into a water basin that is an in ground with an open top (like a swimming pool), it is 10m2 and 6m deep with a vertical steel ladder from top to bottom. These guys will be cleaning any silt that may be at the bottom. My question is do we need the guys hooked to a crane on standby for 2/3 days for rescue purposes or is there something else we could use.
Thanks,
T
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Are you considering this as a 'confined space' because the water level could rise quickly or have you determined other specified risk(s)?
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Rank: Forum user
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Ron, we always considered this confined space mainly due to the access/eggress problems here. The water level cannot/should not rise, the water inlet will be bunged before entry, all that enters this basin is water from drains around site (mainly rain water). Do you think we are going OTT calling this a confined space??
Thanks,
T
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Rank: Forum user 
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Hi Torres
please see the definition of a confined space by the sound of what you are suggesting I would think you are probably going over the top but without having full knowledge of the work practices this is only an assumption
(2) In these Regulations, unless the context otherwise requires—
“confined space” means any place, including any chamber, tank, vat, silo, pit, trench, pipe, sewer, flue, well or other similar space in which, by virtue of its enclosed nature, there arises a reasonably foreseeable specified risk;
“diving operation” has the meaning assigned thereto by regulation 2(1) of the Diving Operations at Work Regulations 1981(1);
“free flowing solid” means any substance consisting of solid particles and which is of, or is capable of being in, a flowing or running consistency, and includes flour, grain, sugar, sand or other similar material;
“mine” has the meaning assigned thereto by section 180 of the Mines and Quarries Act 1954(2);
“specified risk” means a risk of—
(a)serious injury to any person at work arising from a fire or explosion;
(b)without prejudice to paragraph (a)—
(i)the loss of consciousness of any person at work arising from an increase in body temperature;
(ii)the loss of consciousness or asphyxiation of any person at work arising from gas, fume, vapour or the lack of oxygen;
(c)the drowning of any person at work arising from an increase in the level of a liquid; or
(d)the asphyxiation of any person at work arising from a free flowing solid or the inability to reach a respirable environment due to entrapment by a free flowing solid;
“system of work” includes the provision of suitable equipment which is in good working order
Thanks
Chris
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Rank: Forum user
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Hi Chris,
I am aware of the definition, altough access/eggress is one concern the other is that we are a chemical manufacturing company and like i say most of the liquid going in here is rain water ( good chance that some chemicals have made their way in here over time!!, we are not sure about the silt build up at the bottom, once these guys start to move it there may be a chance of some gas coming from the heap, altough ventilation is not a problem, it still is a concern for me.
Thanks,
Torres
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Rank: Super forum user
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Am I correct in saying that the water/space is 6m deep when full but now the space empty of water except for some shallow / small water deposits / run off?
I would say that it is a confined space if the natural *air [*air that we breath out in the open in a park etc] in that space is in any way compromised either by the work activity or by simply being as the structure/space is or by a combination of both ------- your risk assessment e.g. 'what if' situations/questions etc will ID the need for the specific rescue parameters needed -- without futher knowledge I would say that you may need at least 1 top man who has no chance of being compromised by the work or the environment
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Rank: Forum user
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Thanks Bob, the basin will be emptied as far as possible and then entry will start for cleaning,would you go with having the guys hooked up to the crane on standby for 2/3 days? or alternative.
Torres
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Rank: Super forum user
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On the face of it, "Confined Space" does seem OTT. That said, if someone slips and breaks an ankle during the cleaning (you didn't say what that involves), they won't be climbing out via that ladder, so rescue consideration is valid anyway.
If yours is a chemical company, your Head Chemist should have an opinion as to the possible flavour of the soup down there?
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Rank: Super forum user
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Previously where staff have been working below ground we have used 4x4's with winches. Workers wore a harness attached to a line, the line ran over a pulley. Each worker had a "lookout" who was there to operate the winch if there was a problem and a trained rescuer.
Very simplified but it worked for what we were doing.
Our hazards were fumes, possible uncontrolled ingress of water, access/egress was restricted because of ground conditions not because of entrance/exit size. Sides were shored.
Emergency escape was the main problem which we overcame by above. We had the 4x4s and winches as part of our equipment so it was a matter of adapting our equipment to overcome the problem.
Control measures (site near area used by 1500 hgv's daily so fumes could seep into excavation) included initial venting, continual air monitoring, piped ventilation into pit, emercency escape plan, lookouts PPE etc.
Just a thought as a possible alternative option to a crane.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Torres,
Beware of 4x4s or indeed any other combustion exhaust next to your pit or excavation. If you didn't have a 'specified risk' before, you may well introduce one!
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