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Pierce20855  
#1 Posted : 25 July 2011 23:01:52(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Pierce20855

Has anyone come across any innovative ideas for working on top of a portacabin? We currently have a situation where staff need to gain access to height and work off the top of a portacabin. We are unable to avoid the need to work at height, the work cannot be done from ground level and elevated, and is also impossible to do from the edge in a MEWP. I have spoken with the supplier of the portacabin to see if they have any solutions of a system that somehow would secure to the jack stay legs on the corners of the portacabin. My thoughts were on a system that would enable an intermediate rail and 950mm rail to be installed, so that there was a collective edge protection (with corner sections secured to the leg stays). I have also thought of different ways in which we could provide a rigging point to provide fall restraint, but all the system seem to fail to danger as opposed to failing to safe. Or rely on attaching to the roof structure which has no integral strength and/or requires damaging the fabric of the roof (which we hire as opposed to own). The other factor that is a consideration is that the staff only need to work on the roof for one day every 3 months. Any ideas?
bob youel  
#2 Posted : 26 July 2011 07:42:03(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bob youel

what work are people doing on the roof; especially on a regular basis?
Fletcher  
#3 Posted : 26 July 2011 10:24:26(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Fletcher

You say this structure is a "Portacabin" not a steel container and is on-hire. My concerns would be: 1) the strength of the roof, taking into consideration the age of the unit and if any repairs have been carried out to the roof. 2) what work you are going to carry out on the roof and in what position, centrally one edge. 3) what weight would you put on the roof, people, equipment etc. 4) length of time you will spend on the roof. Without knowing any other details it is difficult to advise but from experience I know that "Portacabins" are not designed for the roof to take any significant weight. It may be that your safest route is a permanent scaffold structure
Pierce20855  
#4 Posted : 26 July 2011 12:37:40(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Pierce20855

Thanks for your response; a) definitely a portacabin, not a steel container. b) On hire and then off hired after use 1) New/different portacabin each time. No repairs. Professional hire company. 2) Off all four edges 3) Person and hand tools, no substantial weight 4) 6 hours on the roof, once every 3-6 months (so 2 to 4 times a year) Permanent scaffold structure is unachievable due to time constraints of site.
frankc  
#5 Posted : 26 July 2011 13:33:37(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
frankc

pierce20855 wrote:
Thanks for your response; a) definitely a portacabin, not a steel container. b) On hire and then off hired after use 1) New/different portacabin each time. No repairs. Professional hire company. 2) Off all four edges 3) Person and hand tools, no substantial weight 4) 6 hours on the roof, once every 3-6 months (so 2 to 4 times a year) Permanent scaffold structure is unachievable due to time constraints of site.
Still cannot see a response to the question Bob asked..."What work are they doing?" Would it be cost effective to bring a crane in and have the guys use inertia reels attached to the crane block?
Fletcher  
#6 Posted : 26 July 2011 17:01:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Fletcher

From your response I still cannot offer any suggestions. As Bob said what exactly are you doing on the roof that takes 6 hours? From your 1) it would seem that you are moving sites and getting different "Portacabins" so you cannot know their repair history. Sorry but cannot help further without more specific information
Ron Hunter  
#7 Posted : 26 July 2011 17:21:45(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

According to a thread on the HSE Communities Forum: "Sheperd Construction have developed a safe system for single story container/office units, it is posted on the HSE site (construction). It may hold some suggestions." I can't find this on the HSE pages though. I guess that should read 'Shepherd Construction' - the people who kicked-off the design, supply and use of the ubiquitous "Portakabin". Worth giving them a call?
firesafety101  
#8 Posted : 26 July 2011 17:22:39(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

Work equipment for working at height must be suitable for that use. A portacabin has not been designed or manufactured to facilitate working at height. If it was there would be integral safety rails with toe boards and safe access/egress. I could accept a one off situation where the WAH is suddenly required and the cabin is already in place, but when the WAH is being planned, as you definitely are doing then it cannot be acceptable. You need to conduct a work at height risk assessment and then you would agree with me. I would be very surprised if any else on this furum disagrees with me?
Ron Hunter  
#9 Posted : 26 July 2011 23:04:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

What's a "work at height risk assessment"?
firesafety101  
#10 Posted : 26 July 2011 23:14:55(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

Avoidance of risks from work at height 6.—(1) In identifying the measures required by this regulation, every employer shall take account of a risk assessment under regulation 3 of the Management Regulations.
Ron Hunter  
#11 Posted : 27 July 2011 13:03:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

A reiteration of the MHSWR Reg3. Just "Risk Assessment" then.
Clairel  
#12 Posted : 27 July 2011 14:29:42(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Clairel

ChrisBurns wrote:
You need to conduct a work at height risk assessment and then you would agree with me.
hmmmm.....'conduct a WAH risk assessment' is hardly a very helpful repsonse is it. I believe the person in question wants advice on solutions to reduce the risk, thus he is already in the process of conducting a RA by exploring the control measures. Pierce - I have to agree with the others that you haven't given us enough information. What on earth are you doing on top of a portacabin for 6 hours????
Zimmy  
#13 Posted : 27 July 2011 14:36:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Zimmy

Ok, I'm not the sharpest blade here but why not change the cabin for one with a usable roof? Then ask the supplier if it's ok to install guards etc. Like Clarel and above, I'm intrigued by the roof work.
JonB  
#14 Posted : 27 July 2011 15:15:30(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
JonB

I'll confess to knowing only a little about roof work but recently (at the behest of our insurer's) we introduced flat roof inspections. The building supplier does this for us and as part of the selection process I requested information on how they minimise risks of the work concerned. We were advised that edge protection was not necessary (or RP) due to the duration of the work and that normally the inspection does not require work close to the edge. Where their RA determined a need they would use a weighted man-anchor system (try googling it). Obviously any remedial work would require further assessment and additional controls provided as necessary. Given the duration of work mentioned the above method may not be appropriate. Alternatively and as Zimmy said go back to the hire firms with your specification/requirements and see if the can provide an alternative, this might be cost effective even with additional haulage / delivery if its a long term project.
firesafety101  
#15 Posted : 27 July 2011 15:26:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

Clairel wrote:
ChrisBurns wrote:
You need to conduct a work at height risk assessment and then you would agree with me.
hmmmm.....'conduct a WAH risk assessment' is hardly a very helpful repsonse is it. I believe the person in question wants advice on solutions to reduce the risk, thus he is already in the process of conducting a RA by exploring the control measures. Pierce - I have to agree with the others that you haven't given us enough information. What on earth are you doing on top of a portacabin for 6 hours????
Clairel - welcome back - I haven't noticed your name for a while. I am trying to help but without knowing more about the reason for using a portacabin for a work at height platform all we can do is act blindly and suggest what we can. In my case it was to do a WAH risk assessment (and it is a WAH risk assessment Ron, you can call it what you like). I can not see that a portacabin would ever be suitable for a work at height platform when assessed in advance. OK one alternative would be to have the platform scaffolded in the form of a bridge over the cabin.
SteveL  
#16 Posted : 27 July 2011 15:28:47(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
SteveL

pierce20855 The company who you hire the cabins of off should be doing any roof repairs. As a hired cabin you should have no reason to be working on the roof. Having said that; If permissible by the hire company for your roof work then the hire company should be able to provide a hand rail system that goes around the edge, the same as used on steel containers. If as you say it is a portacabin, then is it a fragile roof. If so why can you not use youngmans with rails fitted.
JonB  
#17 Posted : 27 July 2011 15:33:28(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
JonB

"We currently have a situation where staff need to gain access to height and work off the top of a portacabin" Chris added the point about using the portable building as a 'work platform' and the quote above from the OP seems to fit with this description (in the absence of an explanation of what the work actually is!). Forgive me for stating the obvious but if its a case of the portable building obstructing access to some other area, can it be relocated?
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