Hi all, could someone provide a little clarity on this issue, spending the afternoon discussing RIDDOR putting together a managers brief/guide has fried my brain. "Any injury to a person who is not at work (eg a hotel or care home resident, pupil or student, or a customer in a shop) must be reported if it: (a) results from an accident arising out of or in connection with work; and (b) results in them being taken from the premises where the accident occurred to a hospital, by whatever means (for example by taxi, private car or ambulance)." Taken from L73 HSE Guidance. Basically the question I was posed was as one of our department's is a tourisst attraction, do we need to report every incident involving the public if they are taken for treatment, or just those that could be attributable to our actions/in-actions. ie Joe Bloggs trips on the steps and bangs his head, ambulance called etc is surely not in connection with work therefore not reportable. However Joe Bloggs trips/slips on something we should have moved or cleaned up is reportable. Sure it's one of those simple things that I'm going to kick myself when I read the replies but thanks in advance for your comments.

I agree with Ron, it can be a tough call. I tend to use a 'test' about whether 'I' was in a position to exercise any control over the cause(s) of the accident/injury. If not then I suggest not reportable. An example I use is that if a squash player at one of oyur leisure centres is whacked round the head accidentally by his opponent and is taken DIRECTLY to hospital, this wouldn't be reportable as the injury was inherent to the game and the occupier of the premises couldn't exercise any control over the accident. If on the other hand, the squash player slipped or tripped on a loose floor 'tile' on the court and was taken DIRECTLY to hospital, I suggest that this would be reportable as the occupier of the building does have control over the condition of the premises, and therefore tha cause of the accident. If in doubt - report.

DP - I am also definitely not in the "if in doubt report" brigade! There are many instances where unnecessary reporting can have adverse consequences, from increased insurance premiums to losing contracts! Investigate the circumstances; make an informed decision & stick to it! I would never condone not reporting a situation which clearly falls under RIDDOR, but am more than willing to explain my decision not to report to anybody (not least that it is an awful piece of legislation drafted in such a way that does not reflect a large area of work environments - schools being a good example!).

As someone who advises my employer's schools, I agree with Zyggy's comments about RIDDOR and schools. Though RIDDOR is supposed to be a comprehensive piece of legislation, I suspect that little thought was given to the education sector when RIDDOR was being framed. For example the front page of notification form F2508 does not include any clear category under Part C for indicating when appropriate that the report concerns a pupil/student. The nearest category available is "member of the public". Mootoppers mentions being expected to report incidents relating to curriculum sports. This almost certainly stems from advice in HSE's Education Information Sheet No 1 (rev1) "Incident-reporting in schools (accidents, diseases and dangerous occurrences)" to be found at http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/edis1.pdf Under the heading "What about sports activities?" the sheet advises that "accidents and incidents that happen in relation to curriculum sports activities and result in pupils being killed or taken to hospital for treatment are reportable." However, this brief paragraph does not accord with what is required by law, i.e. RIDDOR. Therefore, if a pupil is taken to hospital with an injury which occurred during PE or curriculum sports, it is NOT reportable unless an identifiable deficiency was involved, e.g. a measurable hole in a playing field surface or the use of an slippery ice-covered hard surface. Though the same reasoning could be applied to a pupil death during school sport/PE activities, it would be prudent nevertheless to inform HSE. This would give HSE the opportunity to work alongside the police who will inevitably have prompt involvement - as is the case for all unexpected deaths irrespective of where and how they occur. Like Zyggy and DP I am firmly against "report if in doubt", for the reasons they cite. Also reporting only if necessary saves employers and HSE from spending/wasting valuable time and effort on unnecessary information. It might help to mention that some years ago I was contacted by HSE and asked why no RIDDOR report had been made regarding an accident at one of my employer's primary schools in which a pupil had broken an arm. He had fallen off a low level balance trail comprising tyres which were 'semi-submerged' in a safety surface. I investigated and decided that no deficiencies were involved. The tyres (installed as new, not old worn ones) had reasonable grippy texture surfaces, and continuous adult supervision was not needed. Furthermore, pupils were regularly reminded in assemblies, etc to avoid running, crowding and pushing on the trail. The pupil had fallen off when pushed by a friend - nobody else on the trail - and had the misfortune to land awkwardly. One of his parents complained to HSE that the trail was dangerous, apparently to help pursue a claim for compensation. The mere receipt of a complaint by HSE seemed to underpin its insistence on receiving a RIDDOR notification about the injury. Eventually HSE conceded that no notification was needed and that the trail - of the sort installed at various primary schools throughout the UK - was reasonably safe! Lesson: investigate, make and record your conclusion/s and stand by them. Also, if feasible, for peace of mind - especially with regard to complex/contentious cases - it's handy to get a second opinion from one or two colleagues. People in other professions such as medicine seek second opinions where appropriate, so why should OS&H practitioners be any different?