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Judex  
#1 Posted : 27 July 2011 17:40:31(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Judex

In a near future, I will start a new career from Quality to H&S officer on a full time basis with a new employer. As such I am seeking views on the importance to be protected under the umbrella of professional indemnity . I have contacted an Insurance company for quotation for the P.I and now I’m more confused as they argued that an employee as example an internal lawyer can be protected by the Employer liability. Comments are most welcomed.
Steve Sedgwick  
#2 Posted : 27 July 2011 17:59:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Steve Sedgwick

As an employee you would not need PI insurance, you would be wasting your money. It is though advisable for Self employed to have PI. Steve
Canopener  
#3 Posted : 27 July 2011 18:10:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Canopener

I tend to agree. As an employee I don't think you need PII. On the other hand, I am not convinced that ELI is intended to cover any liabilities arising from your advice, but rather to ensure that an employer can cover the costs in the event of being found liable for an employees injury or illness.
Jim Tassell  
#4 Posted : 28 July 2011 15:01:42(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Jim Tassell

I tend to agree with both comments above. If you are employed specifically to exercise your skills in H&S, it's no different from you being employed to exercise skills as any skilled tradesman. Vicarious liability is a great concept and you would really need to be way off line to fall outside it. In other words, your employer is liable for the actions of his employees whilst at work, even when they get things wrong. But, and there had to be one, we have occasionally seen prosecutions of individuals after major accidents. You might like to discuss their D&O cover with your new employer just in case (it covers costs but of course not any fine). Don't assume that the company's or insurer's solicitor would also represent you - they won't because of conflict of interest, although they probably can make a helpful referral. At a stressful time you don't want the added worry of who is going to pay though. For peace of mind, it's worth spending a few minutes on this with your new bosses; I would put dollars to doughnuts that they haven't given it a lot of thought.
will1977  
#5 Posted : 28 July 2011 15:22:28(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
will1977

I Agree with Jim, I am in my 3rd year with my present company and we have always Directors and Officers as an addition to the general policy. We discussed the amount of cover required and the general consencus was was that £1m would be the minimum amount of D&O, anything less could almost be a waste of cash when looking at the premiums. Hope this helps
Phil Grace  
#6 Posted : 29 July 2011 14:18:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Phil Grace

Judex, You are to be employed as a H&S "person" (adviser/officer etc) and I am assuming that you will be offering advice to your employer on how they will discharge their duties under H&S legislation. You will not need Prof Indemnity (PI) insurance. To recap - in brief since - there are long books on this..!! Employers Liability Insurance: Protects employers against the possibility that they will be found negligent and that an employee who has been injured by their negligence is owed damages/compensation. Nothing to do with PI. Prof Indemnity Insurance: Is needed by professionals who deliver "advice" to their clients. Thus it is needed by architects, solicitors etc and H&S consultants who act on their own behalf, advising people such as employers. It protects the professional against the risk that their advice is held to be deficient i.e. negligent. Note that if they put their briefcase down and one of their clients trips over it then that would be Public Liability "incident". Public Liability Insurance (generally includes Products Liability) : Required if ones supplies goods and services - thus taken out by manufacturers and those retailing goods as well as those who provide a service e.g. Electricians, plumbers, builders etc. It protects against the eventuality that the goods/products are defective - and cause injury/loss or that the act of building, re-wiring the house etc causes loss or damage e.g. house burns down. As a previous poster has pointed out... an employer is responsible for the action of his employees whether that is a FLT driver who cuts a corner and runs into a pedestrian or a H&S person who makes a mistake in interpreting legislation or devising a safe system of work. Generally a firm's PL is extended to include small elements of PI cover. Thus a manufacturer who does a little design for a customer before they actually make a product for that customer does not need separate PI cover. But if they had "design studio" where they undertook design work "for a fee" and did not necessarily manufuacture the product they designed then they would need separate PI cover in addition to their PL. Hope this helps Phil
A Kurdziel  
#7 Posted : 29 July 2011 15:21:49(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

God comprehensive answer from Phil only he didn’t mention that your compnay needs Employers’ Liability insurance by law (unless you undertake to self-insurance), the others are optional (but probably a good idea if you need them) As for legal help, remember trades unions? They will arrange for legal advice if the company drops you in it.
A Kurdziel  
#8 Posted : 29 July 2011 15:25:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

How do I mispell things even with a spell checker? It must be Friday!
Phil Grace  
#9 Posted : 29 July 2011 16:46:59(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Phil Grace

AK, You are quire right in clarifiyng that EL is compulsory but that PL & Prods are optional. PI is a requirement of some professions e.g. solicitors must get a Practicising Certificate that confirms they have the appropriate level of PI cover. But is not compulsory fo all professions! And as for legal costs - EL provides cover for all the legal costs involved in: - defending civil claims for compensation - defending criminal prosecutions There are some techie caveats but generally if an employee was prosecuted alongside the employer the insurer would - on request - fund the defence of that employee. PL/Prods insurance similarly provides cover for legal costs. Phil
Judex  
#10 Posted : 30 July 2011 18:26:03(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Judex

Thanks for your clarifications for helping not have additional charge in these difficult times.
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