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Gary Gordon  
#1 Posted : 27 July 2011 22:45:36(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Gary Gordon

Does anyone have experience of tandem crane lifting. How can the risk be reduced to ALARP or to an acceptable level whilst using two cranes to lift one load. Gary
boblewis  
#2 Posted : 27 July 2011 22:58:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
boblewis

Get the job done as a contract lift and your risk is then ALARP. Their competence will reduce theirs in the same manner. Unless you are involved routinely in such work you have no chance of improving on the experts.
Gary Gordon  
#3 Posted : 27 July 2011 23:07:06(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Gary Gordon

Bob We have employed a contract lift for this one off event; it is proposed to use two cranes to conduct four lifts of 4 tonnes each the cranes are 3 tonne cranes. it sits a little uncomfortable with me. The RAMS and lifting plan is not brilliant. I cannot find any specific guidence on the subject, I have called a meeting with the project manager and the crane company to resolve issues and hopefully satisfy my concerns. thank you for your response. Gary
frankc  
#4 Posted : 27 July 2011 23:19:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
frankc

Gary Gordon wrote:
Bob We have employed a contract lift for this one off event; it is proposed to use two cranes to conduct four lifts of 4 tonnes each the cranes are 3 tonne cranes. it sits a little uncomfortable with me. Gary
Gary, that sits a little uncomfortable with me too. 4 lifts of 4 tonnes? Are you sure the cranes are only 3 tonners or is it typo?
Gary Gordon  
#5 Posted : 27 July 2011 23:33:58(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Gary Gordon

They are both 3 tonne cranes according to the very basic lifting plan. I have started to question competence!
Chris c  
#6 Posted : 28 July 2011 00:42:48(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Chris c

Hi Frank as Gary said are these cranes only 3 ton max lift this doesn't sound right unless these are small spider cranes or mini tracked cranes , I would need more info to make a comment such as area restrictions indoors outdoors height of lift ground conditions as you can see there is a lot to take into account but just remember even if you contract the lift out under cpa conditions your company are fully responsible for the lift , I am also a Appointed Person if you want me to look over the lift plan I will do you can pm me Chris
bob youel  
#7 Posted : 28 July 2011 07:56:58(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bob youel

Have U gone out to tender via a formal system? If so the other bidders will also have info re their LP's in their presentations to U so evaluate them against each other; if there is a big discrepancy between proposals you may find out that U have chosen the wrong company to undertake the work [U may also find out that your company has gone for the cheapest price without other considerations!] If U have not gone out to tender I advise that U should have but it may be to late now to do anything! We would need to have more detail to give more indepth advice
alexmccreadie13  
#8 Posted : 28 July 2011 09:00:41(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
alexmccreadie13

Gary Some very good advice here and you have every right to proceed with caution. The only thing no one has mentioned is that the cranes will have to be downrated by at the least 20%. With the actual lifting equipment plus the load you could be outside the cranes capacity. It is a difficullt one without the full facts but stick to your guns untrl you are happy. It is no good when you are looking at 2 X upside down cranes with the man with the yellow hat and saying I thought it was not quite right. Good luck Alex
boblewis  
#9 Posted : 28 July 2011 16:56:41(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
boblewis

I am not so sure either that this is a competent lifting contractor - the crane sizes seem rather small as it is possible one may take full load even momentarily. You need to be talking to a Lifting Contractor not a crane hire company which appears to be the case. Look again at the T&Cs ensure it is a Contract Lift rather than a CPA, Construction Plant Association, standard T&Cs. It is not uncommon for the two to be confused. Your responsibility is for certifying the ground on a Contract Lift - if you do more you are exposing yourself to full responsibility and merely wasting money. Bob
moonpool  
#10 Posted : 29 July 2011 10:32:43(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
moonpool

Morning Gary, I haven't dealt with Tandem lifting for some time, my experience of these lifts is also offshore so different assessments are required i.e. vessel motion etc. I am just backing what bob lewis has stated, if the load shifts then so does the weight, and the full load may place the complete payload onto one crane. Try talking to a recognised company like "Sparrows" - they are crane instructors, examiners and have a team of engineers that may be willing to put clarity on what shall and shall not happen during a tandem lift. Have a nice weekend! Regards kev
boblewis  
#11 Posted : 29 July 2011 10:59:10(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
boblewis

Gary Thinking a little more - are we to presume that these are long loads such as conveyors hence the small loading but need for two cranes - one at each end. The description is so vague that things do not properly weigh up. I have had lifting contractors moving 200tonne vessels and no issues with their methods so your comments baffle me. Are you sure the contractor is a lifting contractor not merely the installation arm or similar for the supplier? Are you sure precisely what your buying department have contracted? Bob
Sandan  
#12 Posted : 29 July 2011 14:04:52(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Sandan

I would suggest that you take a rapid step backwards and question why they just don't bring in a bigger crane to deal with the loads. That way, only one crane, only one driver, no need for more people to help with the load lifting, shifting etc. I would also suggest that you REALLY check the competence of the contractor you are thiinking of using.
Gary Gordon  
#13 Posted : 01 August 2011 20:04:31(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Gary Gordon

Hi All Thank you so much for your comments after our meeting on Thursday last week it transpires that the two cranes are 12 tonne maximum lift and not the 3 tonne as stated in the lifting plan. The risk assessment, method statement and lifting plan have all been updated since being challenged. The reason two cranes are being used as they are inside lifting machinery to a first floor a larger crane cannot get around the narrow internal traffic routes. The company is a crane contractor and have undertaken similar works. I feel much happier now that we are in possession of the full facts and having seen photographs of other contract tandem lifts they have undertaken. The company have now updated their Health and Safety systems since my challenge. Thank you all. Gary
boblewis  
#14 Posted : 01 August 2011 20:23:28(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
boblewis

Gary You state the company is a crane contractor but this does not indicate which T&Cs of contract are being used. Please make sure what you actually have by looking at the documentation for the contract. Anything mentioning CPA, Construction Plant Association, is definitely NOT a Contract Lift and you retain full responsibility if anything goes wrong. Bob
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