Oh good, it has linked afterall :-)

The article is a bit short on detail but what seems to be most insidious about this is the mealy mouthed cop outs by the Police and the Council:

The police "only (gave) advice and (they) were not told to cancel' and "A council spokesman insisted the organisers took the decision and said: Highway safety was the main concern raised by the council and Gwent Police"

I suppose it puts the organisers, who are presumably volunteers, in a difficult position but the only way to deal with this is to stand up to their 'advice' and 'concerns' and hold the event.

I'm just guessing here but on a typical Bank holiday weekend there will be lots of people crossing the road (ok not in organised events), I'd also hazard a guess that there will be some cyclists training for road races going up and down the road.
Couldn't they just put signs up saying "caution Fell Runners crossing ahead" - surely there will only be one crossing point - I bet the road is littered with "caution concealed entrance", "Site vehicles crossing" and the odd "Police Accident" sign that should have been taken down ages ago. I sympathise with the organisers - put on the spot over whether to follow "advice", but surely past experience of running the event must count for something

I think the Felixtow one is a victim of 'the cuts' ie the police are no longer providing marshalling.

Have you alerted your MP to this Claire?
The suggestion of a road closure also seems daft, but then I don't know the road. Traffic 30 years ago compared to traffic today and all that..........but adults generally do know how to cross a road.

Clairel
Brighton Race course have to close a road every race. It makes an interesting stop if you are using the road, as soon as the horses have crossed, the road is reopened until the next race.
This has been done for years with the blessing of the council.

Claire, not read all the responses, however my initial thought is to cite 'volenti non fit injuria' for those participating in the event. After all, they are presumably adults doing it for social/recreational pleasure and of their own volition - so what is the problem?

Good luck.

Just like to say thanks to everyone who's repsonded. I sort of half expected to get some people disagreeing with me so I'm relieved that you also think the council is being OTT.

The race isn't in my neck of the woods I don't even intend to run it but I don';t like to see any race stopped for no reason and fell running is such a small community.

I'm waiitng for contact details for the organsier to see what we can do. I'll let you know what happens.

I suspect it'll be all the roads it takes place on; it usually is.

182km of roads being temporarily closed for a (major) cycle race - can't manage 300 people crossing a road for a fell race .. .. surely where there is a will there is a way. Perhaps the fell race isn't seen as such good publicity as the cycle race after all it seems its only upsetting 300 or fell runners and a few sad H&S types!

Hello Clairel

This is not good - all it needs is decent marshalling at the road junctions. I fear this sounds like H&S being used as a convenient excuse.

In this area the police are consulted and advise on the conduct of events, but they do not provide marshalls, why should they? For example there is an annual moonlit walk along the Malvern Hills to support a cancer charity, that does cross an A class road - all run by their own volunteer marshalls, and it works just fine.

The Tour of Britain cycle race is a real sight to behold, the roads are not really closed, but the team of police motorcyclists put on a rolling closure around them. The road is shut just before the cyclists arrive, and is reopened as soon as they are gone. Even in the hilly areas it only takes a few minutes for the whole circus to pass.

The organisers' webpage about this year's event at http://www.machenwelfare.com/run/run.htm starts with "Unfortunately, due to Health & Safety concerns raised by Caerphilly County Borough Council & The Police, the Machen Mountain Race WILL NOT take place this year (2011)." It continues "We are very disappointed that this is the case and whilst we understand the concerns raised about the race (particularly the crossing of the main road in Machen) it is a real shame that our increasingly litigious society has impacted upon what had become a successful and happy event."

The organisers are probably a sub-group of the Machen Welfare Association which another webpage describes as "a charitable organisation set up in the 1930's for the recreational benefit of the people of Machen." I've no connection with the organisation or its area, but guess that the organisers, presumably people giving their valuable spare time as volunteers, might feel wary of going against the "advice" of the council and police. As it transpires that the event's route crosses the main road within the village/town where there is probably a speed limit of 30mph, the "advice" seems even more daft than first portrayed. However, bear in mind that not everyone on this planet is comfortable with challenging people in authority.

The reference to "our increasingly litigious society" is vague, so we don't know if the insurers for the organising body have any involvement. Also, additionally or alternatively, it's possible that the council officials and police officers who have given the "advice" think, erroneously, that they or their respective organisations might somehow be at risk of being sued if they allow the event to continue as it has done for 30 years.

According to a 'Caerphilly Observer' webpage yesterday at http://www.caerphillyobs...health-and-safety-fears/ a council spokeswoman said: “Highway safety was the main concern raised by the council and Gwent Police, as without appropriate measures in place to control traffic at the start/end stages of the race there were significant safety concerns about the event.” A Gwent Police spokesman said: “Our traffic management met with the council on July 21 and basically advised not to cancel the race but to either make a road closure order or choose a different route for the race because the A468 is a dangerous road. They were only given advice and were not told to cancel the race at all.”

It is likely that past events have had marshalls and probably signage as well at the road crossing point. With only 200+ participants, the initial mass crossing at the start of the race would probably only take a couple of minutes at most - not much longer than an extended school group crossing a road under supervision. All roads are potentially dangerous to some degree. However, as the A468 appears from Google satellite imagery to have one lane in each direction through Machen, the provision of marshalls and extra signage might well comprise suitable and sufficient measures to deal with the road risk.

Alternatively, to consider another view, if the road is very busy and there are fears that some participants, especially those intent on winning or improving their race times, will ignore marshalls and take unnecessary risks in trying to get across the road to the finish point, there's surely scope for the start point and/or especially the finish point to be relocated. This would eliminate the risk of any participants trying to run across the road in front of oncoming vehicles. Without intending to disparage the organisers, some people might wonder why the start and/or finish points and associated parts of the route cannot be modified in time for this year's intended date. If there have been any near-miss incidents during previous events, surely the council and police will have mentioned them in support of their advice. Also, though a formal road closure has been mentioned as a possible option, this is surely impracticable: The duration of closure needed for 200+ runners to complete the race is likely to be too long for a main road, even if Tues 30th Aug, the intended date for this year, might be a local holiday. Thus, any application by the organisers for such a closure seems doomed to be refused.

My comments, including some devil's advocacy, are based on the limited information available. Therefore, are there any forum users with knowledge of the event itself - either from personal experience or from friends, etc. with such experience, who can comment more fully on the issues involved? Also, are there any forum users with direct experience or with suitable contacts who can comment generally on the stance/s taken by insurers regarding fellraces and similar competitive events?

Here's a thing to concider....

under the Police Reform Act 2002, Part 4 there exisit a 'Traffic Marshalls' Training and accreditation couse run by the Gwent Police Authrority. This is a one day course and will provide civilians with the powers to stop and direct traffic. This is used by several Welsh Organisations to good effect. Perhaps this should be considered alongside appropriate traffic management training.

I am able to do the traffic management training, adn have done for several event organisers. PP me if you want some details. not advertising, just informing...

Councils are risk takers believe me; as the very act of managing a council means that many many risks must be taken where one is balanced by another and the risk of losing the election will be the biggest one that they consider - They also play politics etc. and this is possibly where your storey started along with teh fact that few managers will make a decision

Don’t shot the messenger!!! Just one possible reason for this ridiculous situation.

Many councils hold Safety Advisory Groups SAG prior to any major event (not sure this would fall into that category)

This involves safety specialists from areas such as h&s, food safety, police, highways, fire etc attending a meeting normally chaired by a council official at which the event organisers are invited and any safety concerns are ironed out.

So either this did not happen in this case, or it did and one of the groups possibly highways or a road traffic officer, required something from the organisers which they either were not willing to provide (probably due to cost) or were not able.

I believe any enterprise that claims to be safe because it has not had an accident is actually demonstrating it does not understand risk. In this case it is a particularly poor argument because road usage has changed so much over the last 30 years.

Equally, I do believe that these events should happen. What the organisers need is methods of demonstrating they understand the risks and will be able to manage them appropriately.

What puzzles me in this case is the focus on the crossing of the A468 whereas the police quote only mentions concerns about controlling traffic at the "start/end stages of the race."

This may seem a little simplistic.
De-classify the "event". Inform all the competitiors (in writing) it is no longer an official event. But if they feel like a bit of exercise that particular day then.....................

They can't stop people going for a jog.