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Counterfeit and Illegal Plugs and Leads- PAT testing
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From time to time the subject of PAT testing is discussed on this forum, I would like to draw attention to the problem of dangerous counterfeit plugs and power leads. Counterfeit plugs are often distinguished by having partially sleeved earth pins in clear contravention of BS 1363, that means that they cannot be legally sold (The Plugs & Sockets etc. (Safety) Regulations (1994)). Despite that they are freely available from (amongst others) many ebay sellers, and even Amazon! Some of the counterfeits also have counterfeit fuses fitted, others have no fuses whatsoever! If you rely on visual checks for plugs (as many have commented in these forums) then you must ensure that the person doing the checking is equipped to recognise counterfeit plugs. Even trained PAT testers have been initially puzzled when they come across leads which fail on their PAT tester (because of earth pin sleeving). For further information see http://www.bs1363.org.uk This includes samples of ebay and amazon sales listings, and links to reports from PAT testers who have come across these. The safety of BS 1363 sockets and plugs is under threat from a variety of sources; it is time that the government took stronger action to counter this.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Stick to reputable suppliers.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Are you saying that the sellers named in the article are not reputable suppliers?
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Rank: Super forum user
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Chris, you can buy anything on e-bay - even asbestos! The "supplier" in the instance of shops named after rivers is often (as in this case) a third party.
BTW, I don't think 'counterfeit' is the correct term. Non-compliant, illegal even, but not counterfeit.
I trust Socketman has brought his concerns to the attention of his Local Trading Standards Department.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Thanks to socket man for bringing that to our attention. It does add some weight to the examination, inspection and testing of kit prior to bringing it into use, but this is the sort of thing that might be missed.
Ron makes a couple of valid points though. Although I’m sure that the majority of sellers on e bay are legitimate, but it is also something of a haven for the selling of illegal/’dodgy’ (Sodium Chlorate weed killer was on there last night, sold from USA, sent from Turkey!) and counterfeit goods. I believe that that is a matter of record and I currently have an open dispute on the resolution centre as I bought, or more accurately, was sold a counterfeit product on e bay. Of course for their part e bay do respond to this pretty robustly, as and when they become aware.
I consider that counterfeit to be something that is masquerading as a branded product, so I take Ron’s point., this stuff is in the main probably just doesn’t comply with the standard even though it purports to, so I agree that buying from a ‘reputable’ supplier is the more responsible (but not necessarily foolproof) route to take.
The selling of counterfeit goods though is often a very sophisticated operation and counterfeit goods have and continue to infiltrate legitimate supply chains, in many areas including both aircraft spares and prescription drugs.
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Rank: Super forum user
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I should add that there is every chance that some or all of the sellers on the e bay listings aren't even aware that they are selling 'dodgy' goods. The advice to use a reputable supplier is sound rather than using an 'anonymous' supplier who may actually be operating from their spare bedroom!
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Rank: Forum user
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Hello Socketman, Is there evidence of this sort of stuff getting into the domestic market? I would imagine that would be of concern to the fire brigade if dodgy electricals are turning up in homes. Thanks for publicising this.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Once I saw this thread and downloaded the link I checked out my plugs/sockets at home and - guess what? Yes I have an extension lead right beside me that has the earth hole too close to the edge. Not illegal but quite unsafe.
Purchased in a local reputable store by the way.
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Rank: Forum user
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ron hunter wrote:
BTW, I don't think 'counterfeit' is the correct term. Non-compliant, illegal even, but not counterfeit.
What they are counterfeiting is the approval marks, usually you will find that it is the ASTA mark that is counterfeited, in the case of the fuseless plug shown in 9 of the ebay listings on the website it is a CE mark, but as a CE mark is specifically not applicable to UK plugs then it is doubly wrong. ron hunter wrote:
I trust Socketman has brought his concerns to the attention of his Local Trading Standards Department.
I have, and await with interest the result, but I know that they are operating in very reduced circumstances as a result of severe budget cuts. I would like to quote a comment which someone made to a similar post on an electrical forum: "I took an example of a blatently dangerous lead to trading standards and explained from where I had purchased it. Months later they wrote to me advising that the lead was CE marked and therefore OK, and that if I needed "guidance on the safe selection and use of this or any other electrical equipment, that I should seek advice from an experienced electrician" (which the commenter was!) " The really shameful thing about that story is that a power lead bearing a CE marked UK plug is in itself an indication that it is counterfeit. "As the devices regulated by Part I (of the Plugs and Sockets Regulations) are outside of the scope of Community Directives and the Regulations are national in origin in support of the General Product Safety Directive, the CE Marking is not to be used. Its use may constitute an offence under section 1 of the Trade Descriptions Act 1968." Clearly that Trading Standards department was not fit for purpose!
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Rank: Super forum user
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Wylex had a shock last year when MCB's from China hit the market... from main whole sale outlets. No over current just switches in drag!
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Rank: Super forum user
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Sorry to hear of your negative Trading Standards experience there Socketman. Indeed, times may be hard. Whereas not all LAs will have the range of in-house expertise, the system used to be that they would send suspect items to authorised Test Houses (BSI etc.) for formal report and necessary action via the "home" authority thereafter. As you describe your experience, I would suggest writing back to the Council (Chief Executive) by way of complaint - this is a serious safety issue after all, and they are the Enforcement Authority here!
CE Marking is applicable to cables I think. If the CE mark happens to be on the plug part of the assembly, then (all other things being equal) that would be OK?
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Rank: Forum user
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ron hunter wrote:Sorry to hear of your negative Trading Standards experience there Socketman. Indeed, times may be hard. Whereas not all LAs will have the range of in-house expertise, the system used to be that they would send suspect items to authorised Test Houses (BSI etc.) for formal report and necessary action via the "home" authority thereafter. As you describe your experience, I would suggest writing back to the Council (Chief Executive) by way of complaint - this is a serious safety issue after all, and they are the Enforcement Authority here! I have absolutely no complaint against my local TS department, although I wish the LA would fund them properly to enable them to do their job as they would clearly wish. As stated above, the negative experience was a quote of "a comment which someone made to a similar post on an electrical forum", not my own. ron hunter wrote:CE Marking is applicable to cables I think. If the CE mark happens to be on the plug part of the assembly, then (all other things being equal) that would be OK? As the 2007 guidance notes for the Plugs and Sockets Regulations state: "As the devices regulated by Part I are outside of the scope of Community Directives and the Regulations are national in origin in support of the General Product Safety Directive, the CE Marking is not to be used. Its use may constitute an offence under section 1 of the Trade Descriptions Act 1968." (Page 10, http://www.bis.gov.uk/files/file38628.pdf )
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Rank: Super forum user
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Socketman: I misread one of your posts. Apologies.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Phil Rose, your comment re reputable suppliers and spare bedrooms is unfairly castigating very many small business who have built up a good reputation and strive to maintain it. The internet and online sales has enabled very many small businesses to set up, grow and become larger successful and thriving businesses from spare bedrooms, without the unnecessary early overheads of rent, rates, property worries etc etc.
Many reputable H&S consultants work from home (I consider myself one).
Whilst your comment was probably well-meant it is nevertheless unfair.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Socketman said: "As the 2007 guidance notes for the Plugs and Sockets Regulations state: "As the devices regulated by Part I are outside of the scope of Community Directives and the Regulations are national in origin in support of the General Product Safety Directive, the CE Marking is not to be used. Its use may constitute an offence under section 1 of the Trade Descriptions Act 1968." (Page 10, http://www.bis.gov.uk/files/file38628.pdf )" I understand that Part 1 of the Regulations is applicable specifically to discrete plugs, sockets and fuseholders, and therefore the disapplication of CE marking is limited to those discrete items. A cable assembly therefore may be CE marked?
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Rank: Forum user
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OK Ron, I see where you are coming from, cables are covered by Part 2 of the regs, " (ii) a flexible cable or cord which is connected to a portable socket or portable sockets and is designed to be connected to a socket conforming to BS 1363 by means of a plug; or (iii) a flexible cable or cord which is designed to be connected to electrical equipment by means of an appliance coupler and to connect that electrical equipment to a socket conforming to BS 1363 by means of a plug; or (iv) a flexible cable or cord which is designed to be connected by means of a cable connector to a flexible cable or cord fitted to electrical equipment, and which is intended to connect that electrical equipment to a socket conforming to BS 1363 by means of a plug" Part 2 requires that these be fitted with plugs conforming to Part 1, so no change to my earlier statement. (And worth remembering that it is the illegal plugs in question which are marked "CE" as opposed to some other part of the assembly.)
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Rank: Super forum user
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Not wishing to hijack this post..... but just caught end of a BBC1 programme "Fake Britain". Seems that in N Ireland there has been some investigation into non-OEM brake pads, specifically VW. Tests were conducted.
Stopping distances wre increased but more worryingly was that on a run of 3 consecutive stopping tests the braking distance for the third test - when pads were hot I assume - increased from 40.9ms to 55 ms.
Now that is worrying. Phil
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Rank: Super forum user
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Stuff4blokes
Firstly apologies to you and anyone else that took offence at my comment; perhaps my wording could have been more cunning? I was trying to build on the point made by others about buying from a ‘reputable’ supplier and that buying such kit in the often ‘anonymous’ environment of e bay does carry a number of potential risks.
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Rank: Forum user
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Phil Rose wrote:Stuff4blokes
Firstly apologies to you and anyone else that took offence at my comment; perhaps my wording could have been more cunning? I was trying to build on the point made by others about buying from a ‘reputable’ supplier and that buying such kit in the often ‘anonymous’ environment of e bay does carry a number of potential risks.
Surely a properly functioning society depends on those who have understanding and expertise acting to help those who may not? "Caveat Emptor" is good advice, but actually not very helpful advice to the gullible, and gullibility has not yet been made illegal. While many of us are healthily suspect of ebay bargains, that is not necessarily true of Amazon, who also offer power leads using illustrations of illegal plugs, here are three such: http://www.amazon.co.uk/...loverleaf/dp/B005EL9Z6K/ http://www.amazon.co.uk/...er-Figure/dp/B005EL9YY8/http://www.amazon.co.uk/...r-D-Shape/dp/B005EL9YKM/A good move towards a proper solution would be to prohibit companies such as Amazon and ebay from listing offers of such regulated articles from non-UK suppliers, it is not of course the whole solution, but at least there is a method by which TS can tackle UK based commercial criminals. It is interesting to note that the Amazon listings are for a supplier based in Ireland (I have notified the appropriate Irish authorities about that, they have similar plugs and sockets regulations to our own.)
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Rank: Super forum user
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Each of the Amazon pages you list offers an opportunity to post review comments Socketman, and I note that there are no comments attached. Why not do the buying public a favour and enter your concerns there (presumably based solely on the pictorial evidence unless you have actually bought one).
I've my own experiences (good and bad, but mostly good) and I have in the past taken issue with (a) someone attempting to sell me a couterfeit DVD; and (b) a USB turntable supplied with a Europlug and no adaptor.
On both occasions, these were purchased via high profile internet 'host' Sites such as those already mentioned, but they do take notice of these things and will (in my experience) usually take appropriate action.
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Rank: Forum user
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ron hunter wrote:Each of the Amazon pages you list offers an opportunity to post review comments Socketman, and I note that there are no comments attached. Why not do the buying public a favour and enter your concerns there (presumably based solely on the pictorial evidence unless you have actually bought one). Would that I could Ron, but Amazon have blocked me from commenting, as a result of posting comments warning people of the risks associated with using socket covers. They have also removed a good number of other people's negative comments on that subject.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Now that is bad news. More worthy of an article or two in the popular press than any "elf'n'safety" myth?
I can see their p.o.v. on the socket covers though. We all know that these plastic socket covers only serve to override a key safety feature of a UK socket assembly, yet the articles are legal for sale - as opposed to the other examples you've highlighted!
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Rank: Forum user
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(( Brief diversion on socket covers - I would like to remind readers that there is not one single socket cover which meets the dimensional requirements of BS 1363, they can certainly damage sockets as well as increase risks! )) Please forgive that, back to the topic: I have been looking closely at one of the counterfeit plugs fitted with the counterfeit BS 1362 fuses (similar to the one shown at www.bs1363.org.uk ). Although the fuse does have continuity, it turns out that the plug wiring bypasses the fuseholder, so it is actually another version of an unfused plug. Digging deeper finds more issues!
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Rank: Super forum user
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Slight highjack: CE marking can NEVER be relied on as proof of safe products of any sort. Anyone who suggests otherwise is is living in another world.
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Rank: Super forum user
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stillp, IIRC one of the big mcb makers, may have been your people were involved in an "operation" over in China were they not, based on this?
It is good to see that there is some action, however I believe that we all should play our own small part in support of this.
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Rank: Forum user
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We are making some progress, with the help of my local Trading Standards department. All but two of the illegal listings on ebay which were originally published at www.bs1363.org.uk have been deleted! A further batch has now been published on the site (the deleted items remain there for reference). Amazon continues to fail to respond to my messages, and has also not acted on the Trading Standards approach! A further batch of Amazon listed products has now been posted on www.bs1363.org.uk , these are laptop chargers for which the power cord is shown as having sleeved earth pins. Some of these have comments posted on their site indicating power lead problems. Of course, not all counterfeit plugs will have sleeved earth pins, but it is the most obvious identifier. In the absence of proper measures by government I urge you to contribute to the effort.
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