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xRockape  
#1 Posted : 24 August 2011 08:31:52(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
xRockape

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-14634289

Check out the attached, its a link to an HSE statement released today with comments from others.
Clairel  
#2 Posted : 24 August 2011 08:39:12(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Clairel

Good article (but it's an article not an HSE statement with comments).

Won't change anything though....not until we get rid of over-zealous safety officials.
MarcusB  
#3 Posted : 24 August 2011 09:07:00(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
MarcusB

Safety Smurf  
#4 Posted : 24 August 2011 09:07:41(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Safety Smurf

Over zelous safety officials are certainly one of the problems but they are far from being the only one.

As a race, humans feel the need to attach labels to things to help identify them. This serves to trigger a memory of whether or not that thing is dangerous (there's irony for you) or edible or etc,. This is a very useful survival tool that operates subconciously. As a race, we wouldn't have survived without it and nor would any other species.

However, this brain function is often at odds with living in a complex civilised society (we are not as evolved as we think we are).

Unfortunately, we as an industry have provided the masses with a handy label to attach to anything and everything that prevents people from doing as they please.

The labels that humans use are words, those words are;

"Health & Safety"

The media is fully aware of this human condition and uses it to it's maximum potential.
decimomal  
#5 Posted : 24 August 2011 09:12:39(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
decimomal

Safety Smurf wrote:
Over zelous safety officials are certainly one of the problems but they are far from being the only one.

As a race, humans feel the need to attach labels to things to help identify them. This serves to trigger a memory of whether or not that thing is dangerous (there's irony for you) or edible or etc,. This is a very useful survival tool that operates subconciously. As a race, we wouldn't have survived without it and nor would any other species.

However, this brain function is often at odds with living in a complex civilised society (we are not as evolved as we think we are).

Unfortunately, we as an industry have provided the masses with a handy label to attach to anything and everything that prevents people from doing as they please.

The labels that humans use are words, those words are;

"Health & Safety"

The media is fully aware of this human condition and uses it to it's maximum potential.



Blimey - can we have that again in English (lol)
Safety Smurf  
#6 Posted : 24 August 2011 09:15:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Safety Smurf

decimomal wrote:
Safety Smurf wrote:
Over zelous safety officials are certainly one of the problems but they are far from being the only one.

As a race, humans feel the need to attach labels to things to help identify them. This serves to trigger a memory of whether or not that thing is dangerous (there's irony for you) or edible or etc,. This is a very useful survival tool that operates subconciously. As a race, we wouldn't have survived without it and nor would any other species.

However, this brain function is often at odds with living in a complex civilised society (we are not as evolved as we think we are).

Unfortunately, we as an industry have provided the masses with a handy label to attach to anything and everything that prevents people from doing as they please.

The labels that humans use are words, those words are;

"Health & Safety"

The media is fully aware of this human condition and uses it to it's maximum potential.



Blimey - can we have that again in English (lol)


Sure, people pigeon hole things and we provided them with a postal address.
decimomal  
#7 Posted : 24 August 2011 09:16:51(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
decimomal

Excellent!!!
Ron Hunter  
#8 Posted : 24 August 2011 09:30:17(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Clairel wrote:
Good article (but it's an article not an HSE statement with comments).

Won't change anything though....not until we get rid of over-zealous safety officials.


Clairel, in my experience these people aren't "safety" officials (although many of them are in positions of responsibility) and neither are they particularly zealous. Rather, they tend to be poor decision makers who do not have the wit intellegence or courage of their own convictions to justify or stand by any decision they make. Hence the scapegoat knee-jerk of "health and safety regulations".

We are all clear that "elf'n'safety" is essentially about myth.
I think we as a profession also need to be making the point loudly and clearly that the "over-zealous safety official" is also essentially a myth.

Case in point being the Murray Mound issue discussed in the article. We here have absolutely no idea what the Wimbledon Lawn Tennis people actually said or who their "safety people" actually are. We, the article, and the HSE comments therein are essentially discussing Red-Top generated hearsay (i.e .myth) and spin. We all need to avoid falling into the same trap time and again.
mikecarr  
#9 Posted : 24 August 2011 09:33:08(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
mikecarr

We as H&S professionals know this.

It's good to see it go out to the wider media rather than just H&S circuit.

This could be the turning point
Clairel  
#10 Posted : 24 August 2011 09:40:23(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Clairel

ron hunter wrote:
Clairel, in my experience these people aren't "safety" officials (although many of them are in positions of responsibility) and neither are they particularly zealous. Rather, they tend to be poor decision makers who do not have the wit intellegence or courage of their own convictions to justify or stand by any decision they make. Hence the scapegoat knee-jerk of "health and safety regulations".

We are all clear that "elf'n'safety" is essentially about myth.
I think we as a profession also need to be making the point loudly and clearly that the "over-zealous safety official" is also essentially a myth.



Sadly I have come across over zealpous safety officials and so I wouldn't say they are a myth - although I agree that they are poor decison makers.
Ron Hunter  
#11 Posted : 24 August 2011 10:01:53(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

I'm sure we would agree though that they constitute a very small minority, and that some of these -let's call them 'error of judgement' - issues could be down to a lack of experience and supervision, an issue common to any profession. I've seen poor judgement by other professions too. Happily, there's usually someone else around to point out the error of their ways! Over-zealousness can often be usefully re-channneled (with sufficient mentoring) into diligence and enthusiasm.

In any event, many of these "safety officials" ........aren't.
confined  
#12 Posted : 24 August 2011 11:33:23(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
confined

My personal view on all of this and fellow safety professionals I come in contact with is that we have some very tough times ahead with this goverment and their view on H&S in the wokplace. We think that when the captains of industry realise what they can and cannot do regarding H&S , there will be less jobs and what jobs are out there these will be more closly looked at. I certainly would not like to be young and starting out in this industry, and certainly would'nt be advising anyone close to me to go into this world. Just our thoughts
peter gotch  
#13 Posted : 24 August 2011 12:46:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Confined

The top captains of industry know that effectively managing H&S is good for the bottom line.

It's the little companies that are liable to be encouraged to take more short cuts. A good chance that they've never bought professional H&S advice.
RayRapp  
#14 Posted : 24 August 2011 13:00:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

Some good and positive contributions, especially by our professor emeritus - Safety Smurf :)

Part of the problem is that society wants thrills but without the spills. The moment something goes askew and someone gets hurt the old maxim applies - no claim without blame. This in turn leads to 'knee jerk' reactions leading to risk averse attitudes. It's not just confined to know nothing jobsworths. Sadly there are many people in this profession who prefer to choose the soft option.
johnmurray  
#15 Posted : 25 August 2011 10:56:10(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
johnmurray

peter gotch wrote:

It's the little companies that are liable to be encouraged to take more short cuts. A good chance that they've never bought professional H&S advice.



Yes.
The other side of the coin: They have bought professional health and safety advice so as to advise them how to spot those with health problems to to the work environment and "lose" them...fast.
Or bought professional advise to do a forced fume check by measuring the dust/fume during meal breaks.
Or bought professional advice to remove the skull and crossbones from isocyanate paint leading to the the paint sprayer wearing only passive rpe....
Yep, that good old professional advice: Kills 'em every time.
Health and safety: Starts and stops in the wallet !
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