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MrsBlue  
#1 Posted : 06 September 2011 14:14:04(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Guest

See latest Scaffolding Post to see where the post below comes from. This post (Scaffolding Post) highlights the need for a consolidation of health and safety information, legislation, CoP, Guidance (or whatever) which I hope is part of the review by Loftsted. There is loads of conflicting advice (even on the HSE website) which can lead anyone into trouble - and saying "I followed such and such" has been found not to be a defence if you find yourself in a court of law. Ron Hunter's post if most valuable when prior to this the original post had appeared to have been adequately answered. How do you overcome outdated stuff? and how do you know you have the latest, correct advice? Rich
Ron Hunter  
#2 Posted : 06 September 2011 23:26:26(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

I take it your after an even closer relationship between HSE Guidance and the various "expert" industry guidance out there? It's a big ask, but I certainly commend the principle. Yes, NASC is an obvious one, equally so would be LPGA abd BCGA, National Federation of Roofing Contractors, the Welding Institute, British Woodworking Federation, BSI to name but a few. More links to those websites form HSE would be good, but I think the obvious stumbling block is that the excellent publications produced by these Organisations are priced, & only available to download if you're a subscriber and prices are generally higher for non-members. People these days do tend to expect more for less, and HSE for their part have made free pdf available. But who would pay the bill to open up the rest and to maintain all that excellent Industry Guidance? In other respects, the HSE have to balance the nightmare of making everything that they do available (open government and all that) with providing the resources it then takes to keep on top of that amount of data. There is a caveat on the HSE site about the currency and validity of various FOD and OC documents, but that isn't always obvious, particularly when using site search engines. We have the wider emerging issue of widespread and instantaneous access to a bewildering amount of data, and there are those who may not stop to consider the source, accuracy or validity of what that Google search throws up, particulalry when it appears to conveniently fit what we think we are looking for. I suggest that the issues you describe are pertinent to the wider problems of the "information age", as opposed to the narrower reaches of health and safety or Lofsted's remit.
chris.packham  
#3 Posted : 07 September 2011 08:25:56(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris.packham

Ron May I suggest an additional factor. There are many commercial organisations out there that have a considerable body of expertise and knowledge. However, being 'commercial' two constraints arise. In the first place the expertise is part of their stock in trade, i.e. this is what enables them to generate income and therefore stay in business. If they were to make all their expertise and knowledge freely available how would they continue to exist? Secondly, the HSE also take the view that if you are a commercial organisation, e.g. operate as a consultancy, then somehow it is tabu for the HSE to be seen to be associated with you in any way. I don't know how you overcome these two problems, but perhaps this is something that those wishing to improve standards of knowledge and effectiveness might consider addressing. Chris
Ron Hunter  
#4 Posted : 07 September 2011 13:09:23(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Agreed Chris, hence my reference to "who would pay" above. I know the HSE shy away from "approving" others, but they do endorse and work in partnership with many professional organisations (And publicise that work). Perhaps even a list of 'partner' bodies as sources of authoritative guidance would be helpful. Most often though, there's little option but to pay the subscription to the relevant professional bodies. Money well spent in my opinion, often a contribution to Management Regs 7 compliance, and of course tax deductable. I'm mindful that I missed CITB/ Constructionskills from my earlier musings too. Those paying the levy have access to much information. Maybe CITB could do more in a construction industry context to allow discounts from some of the other professional bodies I mentioned. Trade discount - another aspect of the commercial world!
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