Hi
Probably been asked before, but I am interested in what counts as an accident at work. e.g. the worker who was walking up stairs to a canteen and ruptured a ligament in their leg, walking normally with no adverse input from the workplace.

When do we consider that some one injuring themselves in an ill health incident is not an accident at work?

Any answers?

A work related injury occurs if it happened at work and/or arising from a work activity. So, the example you have given is a work related injury. BTW, it is not a criminal offence to have a work related injury per se.

The exact term to define a work-related injury is...'arising out of or connection with work', which is the definition of regulation 2(2)(c) of RIDDOR. This term is generally accepted by insurers and others in industry, although each individual case will be judged on its own merits.

Unless it is clear and obvious the person was not engaged in a work activity and not on the company premises, then it is a work-related accident - end of.

I and another LA Regulator have just taken and incident all the way up to the HSE Policy writers with regards L73 and the issue was indeed related to the test of 'connected to work or not' completely different circumstances to this one.

The HSE and other bodies agreed with my interpretation and not the regulators - its terribly written and extremely confusing.

I have developed my own form and I populate it with my own findings regarding the accident - if challenged in the future I can present my information to demonstrate why I concluded in this manner.

If you decide not to report and you can justify why you have not done so - most regulators would agree you have tried your best in trying to get to grips with L73.

Not the case Ray I'm afraid - the LA I was dealing with had the same opinion as yourself. You simply work through the factors provided in L73 and make a judgment.

34 The key factors are:

(a) ‘The manner of conducting an undertaking’.This refers to the way in which any work activity is being carried out for the purposes of an undertaking, including how it is organised, supervised or performed by an employer or any of their employees, or by a self-employed person, for example boxes spread across a walkway cause someone trying to get around them to be injured.

(b) ‘The plant or substances used for the purposes of the undertaking’.This includes lifts; air conditioning plant; any machinery, equipment or appliance; gas installations; and substances used in connection with the premises or with processes carried on there. One example would be somebody who enters a lift and trips and falls because the lift had not stopped level with the floor.

(c) ‘The condition of the premises used by the undertaking or of any part of them’. This includes the state of the structure or fabric of a building or outside area forming part of the premises and the state and design of floors, paving, stairs, lighting etc. For example, a building is being refurbished and a temporary wall collapses, injuring a passer-by.

Effect of ‘Arising out of or in connection with work’ on reporting accidents involving people not at work


You need to apply them and decide. Based on the incident and individual circumstances.

DP, thank for your informative post. However, I do not know what is L73?

My earlier post at #4 included a caveat which makes it clear that each case will be judged on its own merit. The general rule still applies as good sense.

Still don't know what L73 is and whether it is an authoritive document. The original post did not ask whether the stairs injury was RIDDOR reportable, but was it a work-related injury?

I usually agree with you Ray but not on this one.

If the stairs were defective in any way (or didn't have a handrail for example) which contributed to the accident then it would be work related but if it was simply an accident arising from using stairs then it's not work related IMO.

I am amazed that it would apppear that health and safety "professionals" are not aware of nor indeed read the HSE L73 . Disturbing indeed. Perhaps Lord Young had a meritous point ot two.

Jon

Ray - morning,

There is on one set of regs we can use to guide us to the decision on 'connected to work' however there are a 1000's of individual sick schemes base on many different company criteria. So that’s a difficult challenge you have set..

The fact here is nobody is wrong or right because it can be argued from another angle and it’s a matter of opinion:-

Employees

'Connected to work' - walking up a flight of stair hurts their leg - can be argued either way because they are at work but yet nothing wrong with the design or fabric of the building.

Persons not in work

'Connected to work' - walking up a flight of stairs between two store departments hurts their - can be argued either way as you invited them in the store to shop but yet nothing wrong with the design or fabric of the building.


I fully appreciate these are basic examples but I'm simply trying to get the point across - all I'm saying is in these cases investigate them make a sensible judgment record it and produce it if required in the future.

Hi
Many thanks for the interesting replies. The incident referred to was capable of being reported to the HSE due to the employee being off work for more than three days (currently!) However, on investigation, the stairs are perfectly serviceable with handrail and in compliance with building standards. The L73 Approved code of practice is indeed fuzzy. I considered this to be an ill health situation and the employee agrees that the injury had nothing to do with the work being carried out or in relation to the workplace.

I am grateful for you taking the time to comment, I am a Fire Service (Civilian) Safety Manager and as such I am inundated with this type of accident report. The latest this morning referred to a firefighter who suffered pain in the knee from no apparent cause.

I have also had a report relating to a riddor injury with an employee sustaining back pain from bending down on a first aid course to demonstrate the recovery position !! I have my hands full with this stuff !
Thanks again

We had an almost identical incident when a guy on his lunch break stepped through a bulkhead door and burst his achilles tendon. No slip / trip - just pop.
He was offshore and on the accomodation barge and not on the same platform as his workplace but we still reported it to HSE.

IP was off work for 5 months and we accepted it as an unfortunate incident that could have happened anywhere but did so on the worksite. So appropriate sick pay etc was provided.

And Nikki - there was no way this injury could have happened somewhere else as the person coould hardly move!

David