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AdrianW  
#1 Posted : 24 October 2011 11:35:50(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
AdrianW

Can anyone confirm the validation period for an Asbestos Awareness training certificate. I have heard that the certificate is only valid for a year however, if this is the case, where exactly is this stipulated?
don9366  
#2 Posted : 24 October 2011 11:41:10(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
don9366

Asbestos awareness certs are valid for one year with a refresher done every year (toolbox talk) unless there has been a significant change in the CAR regs
RayRapp  
#3 Posted : 24 October 2011 11:51:01(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

Adrian, I don't recall ever seeing the frequency of AAT. I suspect the only place you will find it is on the certificate! The regs or ACoP mention a 'periodical' refresher, which again is open to interpretation. I suggest an annual refresher, possibly in-house is a good benchmark.
Birchall31628  
#4 Posted : 24 October 2011 11:54:17(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Birchall31628

If they are tradespeople that are likely to be exposed, or licensed (and non licensed) then it will be a year. However, based upon your training needs analysis if it's just an awareness programme, so anyone can sit on them, then maybe it's not too important to make sure that this is annual.
don9366  
#5 Posted : 24 October 2011 12:29:12(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
don9366

I spoke to the HSE ref refresher and they suggested that as long as there had been no significant change to CAR reg then a toolbox by a competent person would cover you. As always they did not want to put it in writing
RayRapp  
#6 Posted : 24 October 2011 14:04:23(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

A TBT on AA, how interesting. There was a thread on AA training some while ago and anyone suggesting a TBT was sufficient would have been lambasted. Personally, I find it difficult to accept a TBT refresher would be suitable and sufficient as to comply with Reg 10. Where would be without the ubiquitous TBT?
AdrianW  
#7 Posted : 24 October 2011 14:12:01(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
AdrianW

Thank you to all who have responded to my query.
terrypike  
#8 Posted : 24 October 2011 20:28:09(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
terrypike

I have this from an HSE inspector when I asked a similar question. If you are involved in work with asbestos either licensable or unlicensabe then refresher training after a course in asbestos removal would be annual. If you only need asbestos awarness in case you discover it during the course of your work there is no specified period for refresher training. It was however stated that the inspector would expect an asbestos awareness course to be provided to all workers at risk of discovering it followed by refresher training as a toolbox talk (from someone competent to do the TBT) approximately annually, the TBC could be a reprise of the main information in the AAT.
terrypike  
#9 Posted : 24 October 2011 20:31:47(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
terrypike

By the way Donald, I have this as an email from the inspector.
bod212  
#10 Posted : 25 October 2011 12:17:37(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
bod212

L143 Reg 10 Para 147 refers specifically to refresher training. Both licensed and non-licensed work is mentioned. Don't forget that although you are not a licence holder, you may still come up against licenced materials and therefore asbestos awareness training is an absolute must.
Clairel  
#11 Posted : 25 October 2011 14:03:05(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Clairel

AdrianW wrote:
Can anyone confirm the validation period for an Asbestos Awareness training certificate. I have heard that the certificate is only valid for a year however, if this is the case, where exactly is this stipulated?
I think others have adequately answered the fact that annual refresher is often seen as good practice. I just wanted to point out that technically the AA cert can't expire as it's not actually training you to do anything. It's not a licence. It's an awareness course. If you understand my drift. The same mistake is made with FLT certs. People refer to them as FLT licences and they are not. They are training certificates that show awareness and competence. They don't expire and there is no legal requirement to have one. It just demonstrates competence. The AA cert just demonstrates that you've been made aware, therefore it can't expire. Annual referesher is just that. Refreshing your awareness. Sorry, just thought I'd say.
jarsmith83  
#12 Posted : 25 October 2011 14:50:37(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jarsmith83

See the United Kingdom Asbestos Training Associations (UKATA) web site: http://www.ukata.org.uk/ Contact them and ask this question. They will tell you every 3 years,, with asbestos toolbox talk updates yearly between the 3 year period as top ups. Or, if the legislation changes, re-training will be required. This association is the licencing body, approved by the HSE.
Birchall31628  
#13 Posted : 25 October 2011 16:15:52(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Birchall31628

UKATA is not the licensing body, nor is IATP. The spirit of both these organisations is about independent auditing of training delivered. Audits are also planned audits unfortunately. Effectively you could send your best trainer on the day of your planned audit! Paragraph 139 (CAR 2006 R10) talks about competency of those providing training. Claire has a valid point that it is simply "awareness" and not training.
don9366  
#14 Posted : 25 October 2011 17:11:29(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
don9366

I agree terrypike,as long as you are competent to do the talk then that's fine, All these ukata and the likes will always want you to go by them as it has a cost to our business
RayRapp  
#15 Posted : 25 October 2011 20:28:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

'I just wanted to point out that technically the AA cert can't expire as it's not actually training you to do anything. It's not a licence. It's an awareness course. If you understand my drift.' Mmm...is there such a distinction I wonder? After all, there is a specific duty to provide adequate information, instruction and training in relation to asbestos, colloquially known as 'awareness' training. Surely, it carries more weight than providing say FLT training or any other training where there is not a specific duty. Moreover, a comprehensive list of topics is provided in reg 10 and circumstances where training should be provided. Hence more onerous than most training and hardly within the scope of a TBT I would have thought?
RayRapp  
#16 Posted : 27 October 2011 16:35:21(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

Whilst thumbing through WAH doc HSG 33 I came across this little gem with regards to asbestos training...'17 Refresher training is needed every year, or more often if: work methods change, they type of equipment used changes; or the type of work changes a lot.' Clear as mud...
MaxPayne  
#17 Posted : 28 October 2011 08:26:12(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
MaxPayne

Everything has already been said, but CAR 2006 ACOP states: Refresher training 147 Refresher training should be given at least every year and should be appropriate to the role undertaken. Those persons who require only awareness training could have refresher training as part of other health and safety updates. Employers should identify the specific training needs of their employees so that the refresher training can be appropriately tailored. It should not be a repeat of the initial training. Where training needs dictate, refresher training should include an appropriate element of practical training, particularly covering decontamination procedures, use of RPE, and controlled removal techniques. Refresher training will be required more frequently than annually if: (a) work methods change; (b) the type of equipment used to control exposure changes; or (c) the type of work carried out changes significantly. 148 Refresher training should be appropriate to the role, eg licensable work or non-licensable work. Supervisors of licensable work, for example, should receive supervisory refresher training, not operative refresher training and it should be appropriately tailored. Refresher training should include reviewing where things have gone wrong and sharing good practice.
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