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halo  
#1 Posted : 07 November 2011 16:25:42(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
halo

I have a three story b&b premises built early 1900's, which currently has a fire proof glass partition, across the open side of the stairwell, thus creating a protected stairway. At this time, I am looking to remove the partition, with the trade off being the installation of an improved fire detection and alarm system, I was wondering what the general opinion of fire risk assessors and fire safety system installers may be on this matter?

To provide further details, the maximum occupancy of the premises is less than 20 persons, with less than ten on the top floor of the premises, the stairway in question, is however the only escape route from the upper floors to ground level, and as such to escape, if required.

Kind regards
firesafety101  
#2 Posted : 07 November 2011 19:32:55(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

I'll kick this off, bearing in mind not much information available but as a starter you need to maintain a protected route in the stairway and corridors.

I am interested in your "fireproof glass"?

The protected route needs 30 minute fire resistant construction and all doors onto the route self-closing fire doors.

All access from bedrooms by at least one fire door.

The travel distance from the furthest point on all floors to be 9 metres.

Your alarm system should already be L2 and that is recommended for B&Bs so I doubt if an improved system would be acceptable to cover your removed "fireproof" glass.

I await to be educated further.

messyshaw  
#3 Posted : 07 November 2011 20:50:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
messyshaw

Like Chris, I too need further info. But from the limited info so far, I would be very nervous to accept the removal of a chunk of FR glass, which means the protected route status is now void, and on a single staircase Victorian B&B (with no alternative route).

I am also wondering how you intend to improve the fire detection when the difference between a L3 system (that you should have now) and a L1 system - in a single staircase hotel, would be so minimal that I can't see it being an acceptable mitigating control measure.

When you've educated Chris, then I am next! :)
Paul Wood  
#4 Posted : 07 November 2011 20:56:14(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Paul Wood

halo wrote:
I have a three story b&b premises built early 1900's, which currently has a fire proof glass partition, across the open side of the stairwell, thus creating a protected stairway. At this time, I am looking to remove the partition, with the trade off being the installation of an improved fire detection and alarm system, I was wondering what the general opinion of fire risk assessors and fire safety system installers may be on this matter?

To provide further details, the maximum occupancy of the premises is less than 20 persons, with less than ten on the top floor of the premises, the stairway in question, is however the only escape route from the upper floors to ground level, and as such to escape, if required.

Kind regards

Paul Wood  
#5 Posted : 07 November 2011 21:08:09(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Paul Wood

In order to make any internal alterations to existing escape provisions you will need to seek permission from your local building control officer. The likely hood of him/her allowing you to completely remove protection from a single stair is very small and the extra fire detcetion still wont provide suitable protection for escaping occupants (Your local fire authority wont like it either, I am an enforcing officer) The glass you speak of, if original will not be fire proof but more than likely wired glass which does not provide any thermal protection and is not fire resistant (for proper glazing protection you would need something like Pilkington Pyrostop which does not come cheap!) A residential sprinkler system may be an acceptrd trade off but I advise to check on this before you remove anything.
Remember it will be building control who enforce on the build side of matters but the fire authority who have the power to prohibit the use of the building if you alter any existing escape routes and place one or more relevant persons at risk.
Useful Reading: Building Regs Approved Document B, Fire Safety
CLG publication, Fire Risk Assessment, Sleeping Accommodation www.firesafetyguides.communities.gov.uk.
bob youel  
#6 Posted : 08 November 2011 07:27:00(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bob youel

Talk to your local fire prevention officer [the approval will most likely have to go via them in any case] as they are usually very good and some of the latest systems are very good so U need the latest info and to make friends with the enforcer
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