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rachael p  
#1 Posted : 10 November 2011 15:53:12(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
rachael p

Following a safety event at work witnesses are asked / expected to provide a Witness Statement to assist the in-house investigator and it is recognised that some incidents can lead to claims in the civil courts as well as potential prosecution. We are considering inserting the declaration found on s9 statements which reads: “This statement (consisting of ... pages each signed by me) is true to the best of my knowledge and belief and I make it knowing that, if it is tendered in evidence, I shall be liable to prosecution if I have wilfully stated anything in it which I know to be false or do not believe to be true.” The team is divided on whether the wording is too strong for statements gathered during the initial stages of an investigation as these tend to be a recount of events as they happened and are generally recorded by the witnesses immediately after the incident. My questions are: 1. When completing the witness statement would you expect a witness to sign a declaration as to the accuracy and truthfulness of their statement? 2. If a declaration is signed what is the wording of the declaration? Is it similar to that found in the S9 statement? 3. If you don’t ask the witness to sign a declaration, what is the reason for behind this? Your assistance with this is appreciated.
A Kurdziel  
#2 Posted : 10 November 2011 16:14:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

I’d be wary of including anything about being liable for prosecution. This is usually added to statements made to the police or enforcement authorities and there is specific statutory provision for this. If the case goes to court (civil or criminal) and the person is found to have lied then they may be prosecuted but that is something for the authorities not for employers- we are not the H&S police. Just use the first bit of the statement upto “This statement (consisting of ... pages each signed by me) is true to the best of my knowledge” and leave it at that. By Section 9 statements I take it that you mean those under Criminal Justice Act 1967 which are again usually statements taken by the police and other statutory bodies, for use in criminal proceedings.
David Bannister  
#3 Posted : 10 November 2011 16:36:10(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
David Bannister

I suspect that when forcced with making such a signed declaration immediately after an event, many memories would be very hazy and prone to rapid disappearance. A simple verbal account may well be a better way of ascertaining what people actually saw or heard etc. Formal witness statements may be attempted later, if necessary.
Safety Smurf  
#4 Posted : 10 November 2011 17:04:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Safety Smurf

As lifted straight from my own form; Interviewee declaration; “I declare, that to the best of my knowledge, the attached statement is a true and accurate account of the events that I witnessed in connection with the event for which I have been asked to make this statement”.
HSSnail  
#5 Posted : 10 November 2011 17:30:12(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
HSSnail

How would you go about prosecuting them if you thought they had lied? I think the information you are using is taken from witness statement forms used by the police,hse, la and other enforcing authorities who actually have statutory powers to take/instigate legal proceedings. I know its possible to take private prosecution but is this what you are considering?
johnmurray  
#6 Posted : 10 November 2011 19:45:18(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
johnmurray

“This statement (consisting of ... pages each signed by me) is true to the best of my knowledge and belief and I make it knowing that, if it is tendered in evidence, I shall be liable to prosecution if I have wilfully stated anything in it which I know to be false or do not believe to be true.” No legal basis unless taken as a sworn affidavit.
johnmurray  
#7 Posted : 10 November 2011 19:47:18(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
johnmurray

And do not forget the right to silence. A person cannot be forced to give a statement, and a statement taken under coercion is void.
Canopener  
#8 Posted : 10 November 2011 19:54:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Canopener

In my experience adopting such a requirement to make such a formal declaration will serve to make people both defensive and uncooperative. I have managed for a good many years without resorting to such a formal approach! I wonder if such an approach might ultimatelyprove to be counter productive?
Ron Hunter  
#9 Posted : 11 November 2011 00:04:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

I think you might be done for impersonating an authorised officer! ;-) Seriously though, if you attempt this sort of statement, you're unlikely to encounter any problems as you'll likely find that there are 'no witnesses' to future accidents. Safety Smurf's type of statement (cut in half and minus the tautology) would suffice.
boblewis  
#10 Posted : 11 November 2011 09:33:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
boblewis

How about a simple "I confirm that the statement above/below is an accurate statement of events to my recollection" Bob
Zyggy  
#11 Posted : 11 November 2011 09:48:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Zyggy

I like Bob's version, but how about having a chat to your legal advisers & ask them what form of words should be used just in case it renders any statements null & void should matters proceed further?
palfrem  
#12 Posted : 11 November 2011 10:58:58(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
palfrem

If you don't trust your valued employees to tell the truth, will them signing a bit of paper really make the slightest difference? If they are the sole witness to an event then your guess is as good as mine as to what the "truth" is If 20 people saw it then again I expect there will be 20 versions of the truth.
David Bannister  
#13 Posted : 11 November 2011 11:12:45(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
David Bannister

palfrem wrote:
If you don't trust your valued employees to tell the truth, will them signing a bit of paper really make the slightest difference? If they are the sole witness to an event then your guess is as good as mine as to what the "truth" is If 20 people saw it then again I expect there will be 20 versions of the truth.
Excellent posting.
Clairel  
#14 Posted : 11 November 2011 11:21:58(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Clairel

I'm baffled as to why you want people to sign a statement of truth. The declaration you have given as used by the HSE (and others) on a formal statement given to them whilst they investigate. The HSE have powers to compel someone to give them a statement and to use those statements as evidence in court. You have no powers to compel someone to talk to you or to prosecute them. What is it you're trying to achieve? To investigate the cause of an accident? Or to prevent the root cause being unearthed by threatening to have them in court if they don't tell you everything? If the HSE / LA want to prosecute they will do their own investigation and to be honest your witness statements won't give half the informatioin they are looking for anyway. They'll want to do statements themselves following legal process. If it's a civil claim I'm sure the insurers will do what they need to do. Take witness statements because they help you establish a chain of events. Don't use those statements to threaten your employees with legal action. And as others have said 'truth' is a very subjective matter. Personally I'd refuse to talk to you if you wanted me to sign that or ask for a solicitor to be in attendance.
Clairel  
#15 Posted : 11 November 2011 11:30:27(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Clairel

stuff4blokes wrote:
palfrem wrote:
If you don't trust your valued employees to tell the truth, will them signing a bit of paper really make the slightest difference? If they are the sole witness to an event then your guess is as good as mine as to what the "truth" is If 20 people saw it then again I expect there will be 20 versions of the truth.
Excellent posting.
Agreed.
Canopener  
#16 Posted : 11 November 2011 12:16:58(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Canopener

I have managed for many years without resorting to such steps, and don't recall feeling or being disadvantaged in having not done so. I personally feel that many witnesses will feel threatened by such an approach and that it will only serve to alienate them, you or both.
hilary  
#17 Posted : 11 November 2011 12:26:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
hilary

I really think you need to engender a spirit of trust to begin with as without it anything you put in place will be counterproductive. Should the incident then lead to a prosecution by the HSE or other authorised body, they will be in a position to demand the truth under threat of perjury. You can catch more flies with honey than you can with vinegar.
farmsafety  
#18 Posted : 11 November 2011 13:04:54(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
farmsafety

S9 declaration has no place in an in-house investigation. Its purpose is for criminal prosecution such that the statement can be read in Court without the interviewee being present. However, should this evidence subsequently prove to be false the individual could face prosecution proceedings themselves. In my past life, I successfully prosecuted an accident witness for providing me with an untrue S9 statement (and in the presence of his solicitor)! For in-house statements, a signature and date are sufficient. However, I do believe that HSWA S7 does give company safety teams the power to require a statement from an employee who witnessed the accident or was working in the area of the accident. S7 places a duty upon an employee while at work to cooperate with his employer so far as is necessary to enable any duty or requirement imposed on his employer. HSE and LA would expect an in-house investigation to have been made of a reportable accident by a company with an in-house safety team. Even if such a statement were to say no more than "I saw nought". Should the Enforcing Authority require further information may then take a S9 statement from the individual(s) for themselves.
peter gotch  
#19 Posted : 11 November 2011 13:17:56(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

20 witnesses, 20 versions of the truth. Too true. The only prosecution report I was ever involved with where the basis facts of the case were in dispute went to trial. What swung it for the Sherriff was that there were slight discrepancies in what the prosecution witnesses said - this indicated to him that they were tellini the truth. In contrast, he didn't believe a word of what company director said in defence. Guilty as charged.
Accidentia  
#20 Posted : 16 November 2011 21:16:45(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Accidentia

Rachel - There are two possibilities here. If the accident is likely to result in criminal prosecution, which is usually very unlikely, (and if a criminal prosecution is under way, best leave evidence gathering to your solicitors), then I suggest you look at the Criminal Procedure Rules for guidance. As criminal matters are not my forte I will say no more on this point. However, much more probably, your company will face a civil claim for damages. By the time your insurers, or their solicitors get on the scene, memories will have faded well so taking statements early on is well worth the time and effort. In such circumstances, the statements must be in accordance with Practice Direction 32 of the Civil Procedure Rules. Statement of Truth are dealt with in paragraphs 20.1 and 20.2. The correct wording being ‘I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true’. If you do intend taking your own witness statements I also recommend paying attention to the requirements of paragraphs 19.1 and 19.2. If anyone is wondering why it is necessary to go to these lengths at an early stage after an accident, there are several reasons but ask yourself how will you defend your case if your star witness(s) have left your employ, moved to Australia, died etc.? A statement without declaration of truth can be ruled inadmissible as evidence so get it right first time.
NLivesey  
#21 Posted : 17 November 2011 13:22:34(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
NLivesey

I'd agree with previous posters that a heavy handed approach would be counter productive to any investigation and would cause people to clam up. Having had dealings with insurers when they're investigating claims witness statements aren't at the top of their list of requirements and (as with any investigation) are there to corroborate the factual evidence such as training/briefing records, risk assessment info and condition of equipment or PPE. The only effective way to determine if someone has made a truthful statement is to cross check the statement with collected hard evidence and then interview those involved face to face. It'll soon become apparent if there are deliberate inaccuracies. That's the point at which the interviewee needs to sign that the notes are accurate and I'll also have an agreed Safety Rep in on the interview who can also sign to say the proceedings have been fair and above board.
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