Rank: Super forum user 
|
Upon reading the latest HSE statistics it is evident that fatalities have increased by 16% on the previous year's low and non-fatal accidents have slightly reduced, given that under reporting does not reveal the true extent of injuries and the fatalities may just be a statistical blip. Moreover, what caught my attention was the low rate of prosecutions, 680 in total between the HSE (551) and LAs (129), in comparison to 1028 in 2007/08 and 1720 in 2002/03. I don't know how many LAs there are in the UK but I would guess that 129 prosecutions amounts to about one prosecution per year!
Interested to hear your thoughts?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Forum user 
|
Worryingly I think it could be a sign of the times. Cut back throughout all the civil service and a lack of resources.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
Roy, more worrying, it appears no one else gives a...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
No it's not that I don't care Ray. It's more that:
a) stats change with wind.
b) stats don't show the whole picture.
c) cuts to civil service combined with a prolonged economic downturn is bound to have an effect.
The situation is as it is and we just have to deal with it I guess.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: New forum user
|
Exactly the point! cutbacks are striping LA's to the bone and the guys and girls on the front line are paying the price and feeling the pressure. What doesn't help is that government have just told enforcing authorities not to burden business providers with extra work and penalties as it's not good for the economy(A problem caused by them in the first place). It is a sad time in as much as the value of a life is not at the top of governments agenda but filling their pockets and pension funds is.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
So if the ......."government have just told enforcing authorities not to burden business providers with extra work and penalties as it's not good for the economy......." why implement the Cost Recovery (coinin it)programme?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Forum user
|
Will prosecutions escalate once the cost recovery scheme is introduced, with a 35% cut in budget something needs to be done.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
No, prosecutions are on the decline because they cost money and the regulators claw little back in costs awarded by the court. It is quite possible that ENs will increase further, they increased last year by 16% (HSE 13%) and (LAs 19%) and I think this trend will continue with the cost recovery scheme.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
Victor, I noticed these comments from the HSC about the impending merger with the HSE - 'HSC believes that merger with HSE will modernise our corporate governance and provide a stronger voice for health and safety.' Followed by - The merger will provide:
a more accountable structure in line with current best practice;
better decision making and a clearer public and regulatory presence;
for the continued independence of the safety regulator;
a balanced structure at arm's length from Ministers;
Mmm...so much for cheap rhetoric.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Forum user
|
Ray is absolutely right. There are some local authorities that haven't prosecuted anyone for years, and as the cuts bite, are even less likely to as the headcounts fall. I Just checked on one local authority near here, and found they haven't prosecuted anyone since 2006. Unfair to name names, but it is there on the HSE database.
Court cases do cost a lot of money, particularly if the prosecution fails. It does look as if court is now a last resort (or not even considered).
Enforcement notice use will inevitably increase - they cost very little, and count as a result.
Same happened in the police when they introduced Fixed Penalty Notices (FPNs). FPNs and cautions now account for almost half of all police enforcement these days.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Forum user
|
It gets worse - just checked again and found that it was actually the HSE that prosecuted the 2006 cases!
I'm beginning to wonder if that Local Authority has ever prosecuted anyone....
There are 152 Local Authorities in England, and 22 in Wales - so LESS than 1 each in the last year.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
RayRapp wrote:No, prosecutions are on the decline because they cost money and the regulators claw little back in costs awarded by the court. It is quite possible that ENs will increase further, they increased last year by 16% (HSE 13%) and (LAs 19%) and I think this trend will continue with the cost recovery scheme.
Quite agree Ray. The cynic in me thinks enforcers HSE (and LA if / when they move towards cost recovery too!) will identify the enforcement action that has the best ratio of cost to complete vs the cost recovery possible (probably an enforcement notice) and concentrate on this course of action.
cliveg wrote:It gets worse - just checked again and found that it was actually the HSE that prosecuted the 2006 cases!
I'm beginning to wonder if that Local Authority has ever prosecuted anyone....
There are 152 Local Authorities in England, and 22 in Wales - so LESS than 1 each in the last year.
Although not as frequent as HSE prosecutions, LA's have prosecuted companies for H&S breaches. I expect the number of prosecutions borught will reduce, but will not be compeltly stopped.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
It gets worse - just checked again and found that it was actually the HSE that prosecuted the 2006 cases!
I'm beginning to wonder if that Local Authority has ever prosecuted anyone....
There are 152 Local Authorities in England, and 22 in Wales - so LESS than 1 each in the last year.
Clive, I downloaded an excel spreadsheet for LA prosecutions from 2006/07 - 09/10. My own local London Borough Council appears once during that four year period, whilst many others do not appear at all. I think I will demand a Council Tax rebate based on their frugality!
Having done some more number crunching based on the HSE's prosecution stats I have found the following odds:
Enforcement Notice/ prosecution = 27/1
Non fatal injury of employee/ prosecution = 170/1
Major injury/ prosecution = 36/1
The major injury prosecution rate is the most surprising, given that the HSE's mantra is 'that all accidents are avoidable'. Who said crime doesn't pay, at least, doesn't get punished.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user 
|
What concerned me most about these stats is that they continue a worry trend within HSE for political spin.
Headline: Hooray! injuries are down!
footnote: Oh and by the way, deaths are up.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user 
|
On the one hand we sound like chicken farmers complaining that the fox population is decreasing, whilst on the other we seem to be worrying that we have less to worry about, although the distant bark still seems to make us think about keeping our chickens safe.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
assuming you mean:
Chickens= death & injury at work
foxes = Criminals who ignore H&S law.
Chicken farmers know that unless there is a well resourced means of culling foxes, chickens are at greater risk.
Politicians telling us foxes don't kill chickens doesn't make it a truth no matter how often they say it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Forum user
|
Indirectly linked to this thread was a snippet in the press over the weekend that an economic 'Think Tank' is urging the government to excuse all businesses with less than 100 (yes, 100!) employees from the 'burden' of health and safety legislation! Is this what Cameron means with his rhetoric about repatriating powers from Brussels?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Forum user
|
Hello Ray
Whereabouts did you get the Excel sheet from? Would be interested in having a look.
If it was from the HSE site - how did you do it!?
Thanks
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
Hi Clive,
I can't remember now - I was Googling so it could have emanated from anywhere, but I suspect it was the HSE website. If you send me a PM with your email address I will forward it on to you.
Ray
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Forum user
|
Hi Ray
As befitting a very popular chap, apparently your mail box is full!
Do you want to me to have another go once you have dealt with some of the Double glazing / solar panel / conservatory mailshots? That seems to be the bulk of my mail these days.....
Best wishes
Clive
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
If only...I have now deleted excess PMs in my mail box.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.