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Dangerous occurences - what severity to report cable strikes!!!
Rank: Forum user
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Thanks in advance for any answers here.
At what point should a cable/utility strike be reported under RIDDOR. I have a copy of Schedule 2 which states under Section 14 about pipelines stating any damage which has the potential to cause the death of, major injury etc but my query is if we break a streetlighting cable or catch a small gas pipe resulting in some release should these strictly be reported????
We had a recent incident where a mini digger (with a toothless bucket) was being used to expose an old steel gas main and caught a small mdpe top tee protruding 6" above the pipe. There was no sand or tape present around any of the existing pipe. It resulted in a small gas leak but was repaired by SGN within 2 hours. No injuries occurred.
Similar incident a few months back when we exposed a small section of cable while excavating a drain track which we deemed at the time to be redundant and waste, there was no flash or similar. In hindsight the cable would have been unenergised during the day. We didn't even know it was a 'live' cable until 3 weeks later we received a bill from Scottish Power for the repair.
Should you report these to RIDDOR???
Thanks
Kevin
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Rank: Super forum user
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Kevin,
in my opinion you should report these. They all had the potential to cause serious injury but fortunately did not.
It appears from your email that this is a recurring problem and one that needs addressed as soon as possible. I respectfully suggest that you download HSG 47, purchase a Cable Avoidance Tool and arrange "Streetworks" training for your supervisors and operatives.
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Rank: Forum user
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Kevin
Construction is most certaily not my area of great knowledge; but I thought that the responsibility for reporting pipeline dangerous occurrences rests with the pipeline operator. So if you strike one and get the gas board in to fix it and it is reportable then they would report it. That said I would imagine that you would also want to carry out your own in house investigation; and i the HSE were to follow up RIDDOR report then you would most definately need some details.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Rank: Super forum user
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HSE (RIDDOR) are interested in Dangerous Occurences (as defined), not near misses. The imperative is to report ALL damage to the utility. They get VERY miffed if you don't. Bear in mind that a 'nicked' insulation invariably fails later on, resulting in great inconvience and double costs for what could have been repaired the same day.
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Rank: Forum user
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I find it difficult to believe that every service strike is reported to HSE - or that this is what they want. Where does it tell us to report all strikes?
In most circumstances, we would not have reported the street light hit or the domestic gas supply hit.
We own numerous CAT and Genny and all operators are trained in NRSWA but these sorts of strikes continue year after year - much to our despair. We are constantly training, re-training , briefing, re-training but the actual returns, in term of service strike reductions, are very small.
As per another post, I believe the owner of the service would be responsible for reporting the gas - I had a conversation with them some time ago when I asked would they be reporting a particular incident. They replied no because there was less than 500kg of gas released.
I often meant to go back and check if that was somewhere in the Regs - maybe this afternoon.
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Rank: Super forum user
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In the case of a pipeline which is subject to "pipeline works", then it is the person undertaking the works. As Ron makes clear, the utility provider is frequently unaware of the damage caused to their utility. The contractor undertaking the works that damaged the utility has a responsibility to report it as they will have all of the details of the incident, and it was caused by them: not the pipeline / utility owner.
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Rank: Super forum user
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This was a FAQ back in my British Gas days &, following discussions with the HSE, cable strikes per se, were not classed as a DO, & for a pipeline, minor leaks were not reportable, but serious uncontrolled escapes were.
As Ron rightly states, the "owner" must be notified asap to prevent a more serious situation.
I remember a certain organisation using a stihl saw to channel out cable runs in a pavement; unfortunately they cut through @20 gas service pipes but decided to "repair" them using wet clay & then merely backfilled.
A week or so later we had to re-visit all these premises after numerous calls of gas escapes!!
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Rank: Forum user
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PH2 wrote:Kevin,
in my opinion you should report these. They all had the potential to cause serious injury but fortunately did not.
It appears from your email that this is a recurring problem and one that needs addressed as soon as possible. I respectfully suggest that you download HSG 47, purchase a Cable Avoidance Tool and arrange "Streetworks" training for your supervisors and operatives.
I dont really see this as a recurring problem per se as these are the only 2 such incidents we have had this year. All our guys carry CAT in their vans and are trained to use them. We were aware of the likelihood of the streetlighting cable as we had up-to-date service drawings shwoing us but in reality the cable was laid so shallow that when we lifted the tar, only 150mm thk the cable was encased in the base of the tar.
With regards the gas pipe we were in the process of exposing an existing main and were tracking along the pipe as part of the planned diversion works. The existing main had no tape or sand surround. A banksman was presetn at all times and the excavator was only scraping 50mm maximum at a time. We were fully aware of the main pipe at all times. That said point noted.!!!
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Rank: Forum user
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ron hunter wrote:HSE (RIDDOR) are interested in Dangerous Occurences (as defined), not near misses. The imperative is to report ALL damage to the utility. They get VERY miffed if you don't. Bear in mind that a 'nicked' insulation invariably fails later on, resulting in great inconvience and double costs for what could have been repaired the same day.
Hi Ron,
In both incidences noted the utility owner attended the site and carried out repairs. I try to ensure the guys always report to me any contact with utilities to give the owner a chance to inspect to ensure tyhey are satisfied we have not reduced the integrity of the service pipe/cable.
The Streetlighting cable was encased within the basecourse of the tar on a road crossing and came up as we lifted the tar.
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Rank: Forum user
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I have to agree with Murphy18748 in that if every single utitility strike were reported to RIDDOR they would become overwhelmed.
As long as every strike is reported to the utility owner to ensure proper repairs are carried out and that no injuries or serious disruption to services occurs then carry out your own in-house investigation and action accordingly.
Even using CAT and safe digging practices there will still be cable strikes due to some utilities contractors failing to follow their own guidelines of depths and protective measures e.g. tiles, marker tape and sand. I have been witness time and time again to some, not all, utility contractors using bad practice to get the job done quick and ultimately cheap!!!!!.
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Rank: New forum user
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I asked the HSE via their online advice service about this about 18 months ago - I'm still waiting for a reply !
I do agree however, that the RIDDOR line would be inundated if all cable strikes were reported, and the fact that a typical utilities construction company AFR (RIDDOR) of about 0.15 to 0.25 tells me that most, if not all such cable strikes are going unreported.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Look at it the other way round every Utility Company in my experience report all strikes notified to the HSE - Then if the HSE decide it is a Riddor event guess who will be questioned about non reporting
Bob
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