IOSH forums home
»
Our public forums
»
OSH discussion forum
»
Safety Footwear (Ankle Support) causing injury?
Rank: Forum user
|
I'm wondering if anyone's come across this one before?
As with most workplaces out there we have a number of slips/trips that result in twisted and sprained ankles. Nothing strange there, however I've been considering whether the current issue of footwear gives enough ankle support for our staff who are required to walk long distances on uneven ground (something I thought was a reasonable question to ask).
I've discussed this with some of my learned colleagues and have been surprised in their response that if you increase the support in the ankle this will only serve to move any potential injury higher up the leg and in all likelihood they would be more severe than a twist or sprain.
Has anyone heard of this when looking into suitability of safety footwear?
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
This is an old chestnut that has ben done to death so please search this site for past postings for detail
To date there is no medical evidence that states that ankle support is needed -- note that 90% of the worlds people do not have such protection yet get about happily in all kinds of situations inclusive of work
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
Nothing proper, but I personally don't like the trend to lower and lower boot tops while still calling them safety boots and imagining they provide ankle support. I have the same objection to modern walking boots. Maybe I'm just getting old, but I find myself thinking "call them boots, eh they're not boots" even if I don't say it out loud.
The last set of boots I was issued with (out of our standard PPE issue procedure) I don't feel support my ankle at all - they barely get above the bony jutty ankle bit, and the top inch is padding (not leather) so they're more like hi-top shoes than boots. I doubt they'll help prevent any but the most marginal of ankle injury, but the manufacturer is adamant they are boots and our purchasing people (who basically just buy to a spec that says EN345 S3 boots, so can't be blamed) believe the manufacturer.
Too much following what's currently fashionable in the walking boot market, I think. Look out for safety sandals any day now.
Personally now I use combat boots as walking boots (there's some decent ankle support) and am looking for some combat-style S3 boots for work use. When I find them, I'll set about corrupting our procedures to obtain them.
|
|
|
|
Rank: Forum user
|
bob youel wrote:This is an old chestnut that has ben done to death so please search this site for past postings for detail
To date there is no medical evidence that states that ankle support is needed -- note that 90% of the worlds people do not have such protection yet get about happily in all kinds of situations inclusive of work Hmmm, thanks for the response but I think you'll find that you haven't addressed the question in hand (did the search but that failed to yield anything of value). In terms of ankle support I've had a great deal of experience in mountain environments and know that without decent footwear you're asking for trouble whether hiking, mountaineering or anything else that can put strain on ankles. With that in mind it seems that the majority of safety boots are designed for either construction or indoor use and doesn't necessarily fit the bill for long distance walking. If we all turned around and said 'ankle support not required' then we'd be putting ourselves in a vulnerable position, legally speaking. I'm considering the 'combat boot' option but this is where I've found the argument that these will push any potential injury up the leg. I can see the rationale behind this but not sure if this would be the case in practice.
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
achrn wrote: When I find them, I'll set about corrupting our procedures to obtain them. I like your style, achrn!!
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
I would advise above ankle boots, not just for walking on the rail, remember that you are going to need ankle protection from the many hazards such as rail, points, conduits, sleepers, cable, greenery such as gauze bushes etc etc etc
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
Footwear should be appropriate for the task, stating the obvious perhaps, but ankle support is considered an important aspect for many workplace activities. The difficulty arises where different activities and environments are inherent in the work. In that case, a best fit for the tasks and environment is all that can be achieved. I have never seen or heard that ankle support could elevate the injury further up the leg - its possible, but unlikely I would have thought.
Those working in excavations prefer to wear rigger boots or wellingtons. However, most construction sites do not allow boots without ankle support - so much for a risk assessment. Likewise, those working on pitched roofs prefer to wear 'trainer' type protective footwear. In a perfect world the employer would provide all the necessary footwear for the various tasks and environments - ah, that costs money!
|
|
|
|
Rank: Forum user
|
An interesting one, and it may be worth looking at what boots are being issued.
Like Nlivesley, I spend as much time as I can up a hill, and would not entertain boots without ankle support. However, the degree of support required depends on what you are doing. I've got winter boots that are designed for crampon use, and they have so much support they feel like your feet are in a cast! Walking long distance in them is not good. Boots with too firm a degree of support tend to stop your feet bending upwards, and could be why people are tripping up. Despite all the claims in sales bumf, I have yet to find a sole that will grip on grease - such as on a railway sleeper.
For railway workers a degree of support but most importantly flexibility would seem right.
I can quite see why roofers would want to wear grippy trainers - they would be as close as you could practically get to climbers 'rubbers'.
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
I thought it is mandatory to have ankle support for Network Rail, when working track side (so moot point if it moves any injury). Don't think you are allowed to walk on the sleepers?
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
chris42 wrote:I thought it is mandatory to have ankle support for Network Rail, when working track side (so moot point if it moves any injury). Don't think you are allowed to walk on the sleepers? It is, though it's an assumption that the original poster was talking about working trackside. NR/L2/OHS/021 issue 3 (which I think is current) mandates "Safety footwear which complies with BS EN ISO 20345: 2004, provides support to the ankle, includes mid-sole protection, and has a protective toe cap. Where used, steel or other conductive toe caps shall be covered." There's a further explicit statement that riggers are not acceptable, and an exception allowing wellies if "working in water, mud or snow" and welders boots for "Welders or others undertaking hot work". You are not supposed to step on sleepers at all - always ballast to ballast.
|
|
|
|
Rank: Forum user
|
Thanks for the posts and interest folks, thing is I'm still trying to identify if the issue of increasing ankle support only serves to push the injury elsewhere.
Anyone know whether this is a legit assumption?
Cheers
|
|
|
|
Rank: Forum user
|
I think the injury being elsewhere will depend on different factors including the incident type. In the current working environment our staff are provided with boots for ankle support due to the increased risk from ground conditions and the spate of injuries. We invested in quality boots that were around 60 quid a person and are breathable. The result is 1 ankle injury since these were issues nearly a year ago compared to an average into double figures each year. The one injury was damage to the tendons that recovered in a few days rest and the member of staff who had it is convinced he would have suffered further damage was it not for the ankle protection from his boots.
We have had no injuries further up the legs so for us it has reduced the trend and no further injuries are evident.
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
Nlivesey wrote:Thanks for the posts and interest folks, thing is I'm still trying to identify if the issue of increasing ankle support only serves to push the injury elsewhere. Injury to the ankle v injury elsewhere, you've got an injury either way..... ;)
|
|
|
|
Rank: Forum user
|
Ken Slack wrote:Nlivesey wrote:Thanks for the posts and interest folks, thing is I'm still trying to identify if the issue of increasing ankle support only serves to push the injury elsewhere. Injury to the ankle v injury elsewhere, you've got an injury either way..... ;) But is there evidence that supports this assumption? This is the key thing I need to try and understand as my personal experience would be to the contrary. I guess it comes down to the physics of how someone falls as the result of a slip or trip. My reckoning (purely from a layman's view you understand) is that the ankle is the weakest link in the leg and as such would require a lot less force to cause injury. Most ankle injury's will be the result of the foot twisting or turning over because of the force of the body working against it and IF it was proven that better ankle support moves the injury further up the leg the severity would be less because of the heavier bones/bigger muscles. If this is the case then the severity of any sustained injury could be significantly less. Naturally, if it was possible to eliminate the likelihood of the accident that would be the best method but we are talking PPE, so any other measures should already be considered and in use where practical. Does that sound rational?
|
|
|
|
IOSH forums home
»
Our public forums
»
OSH discussion forum
»
Safety Footwear (Ankle Support) causing injury?
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.