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Buffy2010  
#1 Posted : 17 November 2011 14:23:47(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Buffy2010

Is it a legal requirement to put re-test dates on PAT test labels e.g. date of test ... Retest date... From what i can see it is not; you don't even have to label items - the supplier is saying it's a legal requirement to put a date of retest. I'm not talking high risk mandatory items, just pc's in a very low risk offie environment etc. Thanks in advance.
Invictus  
#2 Posted : 17 November 2011 14:28:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Invictus

The answer is no as it is not a legal requirement to have the PAT test in the first place. If you look on the HSE web-site there is documentation that will tell you what inspections are required and when, PC's for example if doulble insulatated can be up to 5 years.
Invictus  
#3 Posted : 17 November 2011 14:30:26(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Invictus

Insulated
teh_boy  
#4 Posted : 17 November 2011 14:31:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
teh_boy

ahhh beaten too it. I was going to say - suggest to the PATer that doing the test isn't even a 'legal requirement', then tell them to jog on and find another supplier. That said you need some way of identifying inspection of electrical appliances and dates on labels provides a simple audit trail....
Buffy2010  
#5 Posted : 17 November 2011 14:38:08(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Buffy2010

Thanks so much - yes i did look on the HSE website and see that re: . ''documentation that will tell you what inspections are required and when, PC's for example if doulble insulatated can be up to 5 years.''
Canopener  
#6 Posted : 17 November 2011 14:46:00(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Canopener

Of course NEITHER PAT or for that matter INSPECTIONS are a legal requirement, although both, along with pre-use checks are 'recommended' by the HSE, at various frequencies for various items of equipment in various environments etc i.e. on a risk basis, to manage the risks associated with the use of electrical equipment and to help ensure that you meet your duties under EAWR. This has been done to death on any number of occasions on this forum. BUT the original question was about the retest date. No, it isn't a requirement, but it makes sense to me that having gone to the effort of doing a test and/or inspection and putting a label on the kit, that you put the retest/reinspection date on it, as a quick easy visual reminder/reference. I am left wondering why you wouldn't want to have the retest date on it!
teh_boy  
#7 Posted : 17 November 2011 14:51:56(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
teh_boy

canopener wrote:
I am left wondering why you wouldn't want to have the retest date on it!
Kind of agree - and a question PAT suits your name! :) However, I have worked on lots of chemical plants where equipment gets very messy and labels are destroyed in a matter of hours. All equipment was tagged with a unique ID and bar code, all test info was then stored on a central database. So there is one reason....
SHE-Andy  
#8 Posted : 17 November 2011 15:24:33(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
SHE-Andy

HSE website has a 'myth of the month' relating to PAT testing, worth a luck through the archive!
Clairel  
#9 Posted : 17 November 2011 15:38:53(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Clairel

farrell wrote:
The answer is no as it is not a legal requirement to have the PAT test in the first place. If you look on the HSE web-site there is documentation that will tell you what inspections are required and when, PC's for example if doulble insulatated can be up to 5 years.
I'm fairly sure that double insulated equipment does not need PAT, just visual inspections, which is what the 5 yr period relates to for low risk equipment.
Allan Jones  
#10 Posted : 17 November 2011 18:28:26(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Allan Jones

The code of practice for in-service inspection and testing of electrical equipment is helpful along with INDG236.
JJ Prendergast  
#11 Posted : 17 November 2011 18:33:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
JJ Prendergast

The only requirement is to ensure equipment is maintained and serviced with respect to safety. EAW Regs. If you want to stick labels on so be it. I can't believe so many questions get asked on this forum about PAT - its a pretty straightforward subject.
Graham Bullough  
#12 Posted : 17 November 2011 19:21:59(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Graham Bullough

Though it's not essential for portable appliances to bear labels showing that they've been PAT tested and/or when they're next due for checking (i.e. formal inspection and testing), surely such labels are quite useful, especially for items like kettles and floor polishing machines for example which are frequently used and/or vulnerable to damage. They enable employees, employee reps and line managers to readily identify if such appliances are being formally checked and at what sort of intervals. They're also of use to OS&H advisers: For example if I see a kettle in a technicians' room in one of my employer's schools, I might have a look at it for a label. If there is one but it's several years out of date, it prompts me to advise management to take appropriate action. Also, the absence of a label could indicate that the kettle might be a dodgy old one brought in by an employee from home and has never been subject to any check. Bear in mind that labels can sometimes get damaged or unwittingly removed, so don't leap to conclusions about not seeing a label. In addition, to echo a pet theme of mine, a formal check system is just one part of trying to ensure electrical safety with portable appliances which by their nature need such checks. (Some organisations waste money and effort on regularly inspecting and testing appliances which either don't need checks or only on a less frequent basis.) Furthermore, formal checks should be considered as the equivalent for portable appliances of MOT tests for vehicles. Another important part of ensuring safety is for users of portable appliances to be told and reminded from time to time about the need to treat the appliances with reasonable care, to be vigilant for damage and what action they should take about evident or suspected damage!
Zimmy  
#13 Posted : 17 November 2011 19:28:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Zimmy

As long as people go for the 'mimimum requirement' people will keep getting killed or burnt by electriciy. Why not take the 'I'm not an electrician so I'll take the safe path! Too many people who are not qualifed dish out advice.
Invictus  
#14 Posted : 18 November 2011 06:41:08(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Invictus

Clairel wrote:
farrell wrote:
The answer is no as it is not a legal requirement to have the PAT test in the first place. If you look on the HSE web-site there is documentation that will tell you what inspections are required and when, PC's for example if doulble insulatated can be up to 5 years.
I'm fairly sure that double insulated equipment does not need PAT, just visual inspections, which is what the 5 yr period relates to for low risk equipment.
Your right, I was just trying to point the poster in a direction.
chris.packham  
#15 Posted : 18 November 2011 08:05:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris.packham

What about the situation that I encounter, then? I often have to take small scientific measuring instruments into clients. In some companies it is a requirement that before I can plug this in to use it has to be PAT tested. This even though the equipment already has a label showing that it was recently PAT tested. Some of my equipment now has several labels. Usual response from the PAT tester when I comment on this:"It's the law!" Chris
HSSnail  
#16 Posted : 18 November 2011 08:14:11(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
HSSnail

Chris PAT testing is not a law how often do we have to say that? But if a company wants you have equipment pat tested before you plug it in, in their premises as part of their safe system of work that's up to them. The law is that electrical equipment must be maintained and safe what that means is down to risk assessment. I read your responses with great interest and value your contributions to this site but pat testing being law is as true as a chemicals data sheet being a COSHH assessment.
Canopener  
#17 Posted : 18 November 2011 09:03:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Canopener

If I read his post correctly, I don't think Chris was suggesting that PAT was the law but rather that it was being quoted to HIM (by others) as being the law!
chris.packham  
#18 Posted : 18 November 2011 14:59:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris.packham

canopener... Exactly. In fact, if I were so inclined I could find it mildly insulting that having equipment with valid PAT test stickers (note the plural) on it having to be re-patch tested. Could this suggest that I was incompetent or untrustworthy? Incidentally, the equipment uses a probe that is placed on the worker's skin to measure skin condition. Has anyone ever asked me about the safety of the equipment? They are happy to take that on trust, but not the stickers? How logical is that! Chris
HSSnail  
#19 Posted : 18 November 2011 15:05:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
HSSnail

Chris I apologise if my post was made in haste and was in any way offensive, As I said I for one value your contribution to this site. If what you were expressing was frustration with people telling you that pat testing is law then I am in agreement with you. If however someone telly you (or me) that any equipment is pat tasted before use in their premises because that is part of their safe system of work then I think we have to accept that.
chris.packham  
#20 Posted : 18 November 2011 16:10:18(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris.packham

Brian I wasn't offended. It is just that I find sometimes there is an illogicality in some organisations approach to health and safety. The equipment has to be PAT tested, even though it is small scientific apparatus with an external power supply supplying just 5V to the apparatus itself. This seems to be a major concern. I have been kept waiting sometimes over an hour for someone to come and PAT test what is in perfectly sound condition, as a visual check would show. I appreciate that PAT testing for something such as a large portable electric drill or tile cutter makes sense, but where does one draw the line? So the small power pack has to be PAT tested. Yet no-one has ever questioned the safety of placing a probe connected to the apparatus on someone's skin to measure skin condition. How do they know that I am not going to apply a high voltage current to the worker's skin? It's a bit like the security checks at airports. I have taken this equipment through in hand luggage many, many times. They insist on checking my laptop, but the little box containing electronics and a 9v battery with a lead coming out ending in a cylindrical object the size of a detonator on the end is simply ignored. Gives me real confidence on the effectiveness of the security check. Incidentally, in one company I was told it had to be PAT tested, even when I was going to use it with the battery and not even connected to the mains! And we are the ones who are saying that industry is bogged down in red tape! Chris
Lawlee45239  
#21 Posted : 21 November 2011 10:08:19(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Lawlee45239

my understanding is that its not a legal requirement, BUT if something happens for example 'a fire' then the insurance would come back and say 'you had no PAT Testing'......is my understanding wrong on this matter??
Clairel  
#22 Posted : 21 November 2011 15:26:37(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Clairel

Lawlee45239 wrote:
my understanding is that its not a legal requirement, BUT if something happens for example 'a fire' then the insurance would come back and say 'you had no PAT Testing'......is my understanding wrong on this matter??
That's a bit too black and white of a statement.
David Bannister  
#23 Posted : 21 November 2011 15:29:17(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
David Bannister

Lawlee, they may well say that but would soon discover that attempting to repudiate a multi-million pound fire claim on the basis that a kettle hadn't been PAT'd would be very seriously and successfully challenged by even the most inept policyholder and their broker.
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