Motorhead

It's another one of these but what ifs? At the risk of being shot down in flames, I believe the liability rests with the taxi driver. If they are self-employed then they have a duty pursuant to s3.2 HSWA - if my memory serves me right. However, should the taxi driver have a road accident and it could be proved it was due to tiredness/ exhaustion, I suspect it would be an offence under the RTA 1984 (as amended) for causing death by careless/ dangerous driving.

I'm sure someone else will be willing to pick the bones out of this one.

Ray

Thanks Folks.

It was just something that crossed my mind.

I will be reporting it to the taxi firm all the same, nothing may get done and he may never have an accident. But like Ray says its a "what if".

Or am I being a touch sensitive???

Andy

On the assumption that the taxi company knows what hours the driver works e.g. by allocating work, then duty of care on both company and individual.

"Neighbour Test" as per judgment in Donoghue v Stephenson - generally considered to be the most important case law in relation to tort.

www.thepaisleysnail.com

It might be the local authority that issued the licences for these over tired drivers that put all at risk that you need to report it to

Sorry, I missed the rather obvious (especially for someone who sat next to the licensing team for many years!) that both Frank and Graham mention. The licensing team at your local Council would be interested to hear of your observations, and if you could provide them with any additional information such as reg, plate number etc this would be helpful. There is some evidence of some taxi firms using rather dubious practices, and you never know they may be carrying someone that you care for one day.

Interesting information from cbrpete with his 'poacher turned gamekeeper' insight. Though my use of private hire cars tends to be limited to occasional trips between home and the nearest airport in connection with holidays, I'll pay a bit more attention in future to gauge how awake/alert the drivers are. Fatigue might explain why some of them don't drive particularly well, but perhaps some are just sloppy drivers anyway whether tired or not. In connection with this aspect cbrpete, please can you say whether or not your employer's licensing system (and those of other licensing authorities generally) include any scheme for assessing the driving competence of applicants for licenses?

By comparison, my own employer, a local authority, requires any of its employees (and probably volunteers as well) who drive council vehicles, including school-owned and hired minibuses, to first undergo an on-road assessment by its experienced in-house assessor in order to receive a council driving permit. This is linked to the council's insurance system as well as being a sensible safety measure in my opinion. This reflects the fact that many people who go for the internal driving permit have had no assessment whatsoever of their driving competence since they passed the UK driving test many years before. From occasional chats in the past with my employer's driving assessor I understand that some employees, including line managers, are surprised to learn from being assessed that they need to improve their driving in order to qualify for a council driving permit.

In my own case I passed my driving test at the age of 18 and have been driving for almost 40 years now. However, even though I did some IAM (Institute of Advanced Motorists) driving about 20 years ago, I wonder how I would fare if I were faced with an impromptu UK driving test or my employer's driving assessment! The same goes for most drivers if we're honest and acknowledge factors like skills fade, etc.
My apologies to Motorhead for introducing a digression from the main topic, even though it comprises another facet of driving safety.

Motorhead

The reaction of the taxi company was no surprise. No doubt some of us forum users would be interested to learn from you if and how the licensing authority respond to you. (As ever no naming names on this public forum) Even if the authority doesn't reply to you (if its licensing team section has few employees but too many work demands) it doesn't necessarily mean that it's not doing anything about the matter.

cbrpete - With your knowledge and experience would you be able and willing to comment about what action, if any, licensing sections could take about the matter of car hire driver fatigue and excessive hours? Also, assuming that there are networks for licensing staff from various local authorities to discuss common issues and problems, is this matter one which is currently/repeatedly discussed by such networks?

Another query just out of curiosity: Customers using private hire cars usually pay the drivers (in cash) at the ends of their journeys. How do the private hire firms get their income? For example does a driver pay a fixed or sliding amount of money to a firm in return for being part of the firm's network of drivers and being provided with customers for agreed periods of time?

cbrpete - Thanks for your information. It seems that licensing authorities generally are likely to do little regarding excessive working hours and inadequate interim rest periods for drivers of taxis and private hire vehicles. This is not necessarily a criticism of such authorities, more a recognition that they probably have no legal standard to enforce regarding hours and rests. However, if there is no standard, is there not a strong case for extending to such drivers the legal standard which applies to drivers of buses, coaches and lorries? If such an extension were proposed, no doubt there would be opposition from some quarters - just as there was regarding the introduction of drink driving laws, effectively in 1967 by which time suitable technology had been developed for measuring alcohol levels in breath and in blood.

Also, in the context of this topic, your information was both useful and interesting - Information is only useless to people who don't want it or have no interest in it. Through working in OS&H since 1977 I've encountered many different occupations, activities and types of workplaces and acquired plenty of related information and anecdotes. Some of it is shared on this forum and may be of interest/use to some forum users - and totally boring to others in the same way that I personally find news and TV programmes about so-called celebrities, most sportspeople and singers, etc of no interest whatsoever.

Looking beyond drivers of taxis/private hire vehicles, this topic is about fatigue and its adverse safety implications for work people in various occupations and people generally. It was certainly a major issue for medical doctors. In the past I've known a number of newly-qualified/junior doctors in hospitals who worked very long hours including shifts of 48 hours comprising 2 full days and being "on call" (sometimes with little or even no sleep) in between. If they weren't working or on call, they tended to catch up on overdue sleep. The traditional reason cited for such hours was "to maintain continuity of care". However, surely the ability of fatigued doctors to provide continuity of care (by thinking clearly, accurately calculating dosages of potent medicines, etc) would be seriously diminished. (In a link back to fatigued drivers, I knew of one junior doctor who did a longish shift before setting off after dark in winter to drive some 250 miles to visit parents. Some hours into the journey she dozed off at the wheel. Her car apparently careered up an embankment, back down again and across a dual carriageway. Fortunately, it was very late evening and no other vehicles were involved. Although her car was quite badly damaged the doctor was lucky to suffer little more than shock and bruises.)

I understand that the hours for junior doctors have improved in recent years, and also that GPs nowadays are generally not expected to do night and/or weekend calls as well as work full days during the week. Can anyone confirm or deny the situation for junior doctors in hospitals?