Rank: New forum user
|
Is there a legal stance on employees not reporting accidents? We have had several cases of an employee claiming they had an accident at work days after the alleged incident and then calling in sick. Should we record these incidents and recognise them or not? As the last two had no proof at all that they occured at work. Our company handbook and Accident Procedure clearly states that all accidents must be reported immediately and recorded.
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Jared wrote:Is there a legal stance on employees not reporting accidents? We have had several cases of an employee claiming they had an accident at work days after the alleged incident and then calling in sick. Should we record these incidents and recognise them or not? As the last two had no proof at all that they occured at work. Our company handbook and Accident Procedure clearly states that all accidents must be reported immediately and recorded. Section 7 springs to mind.
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
There is a general requirement in Section 7 of HASAWA that employees must take reasonable care for the health and safety of themselves and of other persons who may be affected by what they do, or fail to do, at work.
This duty implies not only avoiding obviously silly or reckless behaviour, but also taking positive steps to understand the hazards in the workplace, to comply with safety rules and procedures, and to ensure that nothing they do or fail to do puts themselves or others at risk. Section 7(a)
Under Section 7(b), where duties or requirements are imposed on employers or any other persons under the Act and relevant statutory provisions, employees must co-operate with the employer or other person so far as is necessary to enable the duty or requirement to be carried out.
In your example, there is a duty on your employer to ensure that accidents are reported under RIDDOR. To comply with this duty, you have a procedure, information, instrauction ,training etc of employees. Providing thr procedures are indeed appropriate, the duty on the employee is to co-operate by following them.
However, it is most unlikely that there will be any enforcement action by authorities, but you should have within your HR polcies what constitutes misconduct and disciplinary procedures for dealing with misconduct. Non-compliance with Health and Safety procedures in all organisation I am aware of does constitute misconduct.
I have had this type of expereince when working for a local authority that had a parapatetic workforce. It took significant effort and training of all, including managers to improve the system. A key aspect when reporting sick due to accidents is a set of questions to be asked.
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
I think Jay has given you a very comprehensive answer. But to add my little bit if they are claiming they have had an accident at work then yes you must record it and if appropriate report it under RIDDOR.
"As the last two had no proof at all that they occurred at work."
This tends to suggest that you have investigated the claims and could find no evidence to support so you may argue that it does not need reporting, but how long did the investigation take as you could find you are late reporting if it turns out to be true.
" Our company handbook and Accident Procedure clearly states that all accidents must be reported immediately and recorded. "
So treat this like any other breach of company rules
|
|
|
|
Rank: New forum user
|
Thanks for the responses. I understand all of the statutory duties, but my point is, why should we end up reporting an incident to the HSE under RIDDOR if: 1. We don't know for sure that it actually happened at work. 2. There were no witnesses. 3. He never even called in to report it, relying on a spouse to call in to say they were sick.
For all I know, he could have done this whilst golfing the morning after.
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Jared wrote:Thanks for the responses. I understand all of the statutory duties, but my point is, why should we end up reporting an incident to the HSE under RIDDOR if: 1. We don't know for sure that it actually happened at work. 2. There were no witnesses. 3. He never even called in to report it, relying on a spouse to call in to say they were sick.
For all I know, he could have done this whilst golfing the morning after. They have reported they had an accident at work. To cover yourself - if it is reportable, then the best advice is to report it. If it turns out they have stated a falsehood on their heads be it.
|
|
|
|
Rank: Forum user
|
quote=Jared]Thanks for the responses. I understand all of the statutory duties, but my point is, why should we end up reporting an incident to the HSE under RIDDOR if: 1. We don't know for sure that it actually happened at work. 2. There were no witnesses. 3. He never even called in to report it, relying on a spouse to call in to say they were sick.
For all I know, he could have done this whilst golfing the morning after. Because the employee, via his wife, has now informed you that the injury/sickness was a result of work activity. Clearly, you think this is bogus, and are probably right. But you will have difficulty proving this, unless you decide to take the time and effort checking up on his weekend activity, which can be intrusive and still unlikely to confirm anything conclusive. Just report the details as advised by the employee. In my time at HSE there were many accidents reported where an employee had allegedly suffered an accident/injury just before leaving work on a Friday afternoon, and chose not to inform anyone until the following Monday, Tuesday or Wednesday! Always there was no witnesses, just the word of the employee. Don't worry, HSE has not got the interest, time or manpower to follow up these incidents anyway!
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Conversely, where does it state that an employee has to report an accident. Several of my workforce had minor accidents and admitted it was there own fault. They didn't want to cause a fuss so refused to complete an Accident Report.
They both finally admitted they were embarrassed about the incident which was down to their negligence.
Rich
|
|
|
|
Rank: Forum user
|
Section 7 of HASAW 1974 states that it is the duty of every employee to co-operate with their employer so far as is necessay.
Therefore we have it in the Company rules that they must report all accidents at the earliest opportunity, with a note that this must be before leaving site at the end of their working shift and that any incidents not reported before leaving site will not be regarded as a work accident / injury. There is also a note that anybody working offsite must report an incident the same working day either by phone or email.
This has been clearly communicated and agreed with the union, but we still get individuals calling in sick as a result of a so-called accident a few days earlier that they did not report. When this happens, the individual is marked down as absent, if it goes over 3 days absence I do not report under RIDDOR and the individuals line manager suggests to them that a disciplanary meeting will be held on their return for not reporting the incident in line with company rules.
I do not fill in an accident investigation form, but I do investigate the claimed accident usually with the union safety rep and the supervisor. I summerise my findings in a report which I submit to senior management. Therefore it does get investigated, but outside of the formal accident investigation system.
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
You can only really begin to challenge these "bogus" workplace injuries if you have a very robust and well-communicated process for reporting that works at all times and all circumstances. Inevitably, there are instances that will slip through that net. "All accidents must be reported immediately and recorded" isn't going to work every single time.
Accident without witness is fairly common. Late notification is also entirely possible, particularly where the employee is taken from the scene, kept in hospital, or doesn't have anyone to promptly 'phone the office on their behalf.
Some other responses here are potentially contrary to what Social Security legislation requires. If you think you've got a 'local' problem then it might be an idea to conduct a wee bit of extra 'surveillance' and to explore the disciplinary options available. Your occupational health provider can also give medical opinion on the veracity of any injury claims, confirm with GP etc. Legal options? Not really. Reporting in accordance with RIDDOR may be a pain, but what real harm does it do to report it - is it not better to err on the side of caution on behalf of the employer?
Do you have a robust process of "back to work" interview? This can be very informative!
|
|
|
|
Rank: Forum user
|
ron hunter wrote:You can only really begin to challenge these "bogus" workplace injuries if you have a very robust and well-communicated process for reporting that works at all times and all circumstances. Inevitably, there are instances that will slip through that net. "All accidents must be reported immediately and recorded" isn't going to work every single time.
Accident without witness is fairly common. Late notification is also entirely possible, particularly where the employee is taken from the scene, kept in hospital, or doesn't have anyone to promptly 'phone the office on their behalf.
Some other responses here are potentially contrary to what Social Security legislation requires. If you think you've got a 'local' problem then it might be an idea to conduct a wee bit of extra 'surveillance' and to explore the disciplinary options available. Your occupational health provider can also give medical opinion on the veracity of any injury claims, confirm with GP etc. Legal options? Not really. Reporting in accordance with RIDDOR may be a pain, but what real harm does it do to report it - is it not better to err on the side of caution on behalf of the employer?
Do you have a robust process of "back to work" interview? This can be very informative! You shouldn't wait for a 'back to work' interview. As a caring employer, you should be calling around their home to check on their welfare and offer support. Or even a phone call from an occ health nurse. That'll motivate a few of them!
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
During my time at North West Gas we investigated every lost time accident which involved a home visit if necessary.
We also had the lowest stats in the country & some of these visits bordered on the miraculous as employees often returned to work on the following day!
I will never forget knocking on a door & being told by an inquisitive neighbour that "he always takes time off at this time of year (Xmas) as his wife is a mobile hairdresser"; or the employee who had inhaled a small quantity of gas & his wife declared during the interview that on the same evening whilst in the car he started to pass wind, not his normal wind, but just as if you had left the pilot light unlit on the cooker! (profuse apologies if I have lowered the tone of this thread!!)
|
|
|
|
Rank: Forum user
|
If it is part of your Company H&S Policy I would remind all employees that by not reporting straightaway that they could be leaving themselves liable for disciplinary action. It generally takes for one person to be disciplined and they will all start to listen.
I had a similar issue in an old workplace and it was very frustrating when the HSE came out querying are reporting and investigation procedures. Fortunately we had excellent procedures in place it was just that one individual chose to ignore them...
|
|
|
|
Rank: New forum user
|
Thanks All
Just to let you know, all incidents were reported (reluctantly) and discipline process is being used for the breach of company procedure.
|
|
|
|
Rank: Forum user
|
A lot of good comments to this, in my current place of work we have made it a policy that all accidents, no matter how minor are not only reported but are investigated by the line manager, then further if required by Top Management.
We have a few instances where ex employees have attempted to claim injury at work, luckily we have been able to disprove all thus far and that is down to thorough record keeping.
During induction and annual H&S refresher training, all employees are taught that it is in their best interest to accurately report accidents and add their versions of the occurrences during the initial informal investigation, this has led to the reporting of some trivial accidents but at least the guys have full awareness of the process and our efforts to prevent reoccurrence.
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
The main area that deals directly with accident reporting and claims via the employee is under Social Security law and not H&S law so get up to date with that area and U will go a long way to answer your own question
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.