Hi all, We're a major call-centre / financial services company based in York. I've just had a visit from a company called HSE UK, claiming to be working on behalf of (or in partnership with) the HSE. They said they wanted to do a high level inspection and audit on our kitchen, including our PAT test arrangements. They said they had written to us to arrange an appointment, but it was the first I'd heard of it. Because they weren't actual HSE (Health Safety Executive) officials and because it's actually the local council (not the HSE) who enforce H&S in our industry I decided to politely turn them away. I offered to co-operate should a regulatory official care to get in touch in their enforcement capacity. I very much feared at worst a scam or at best a consultancy firm trying to blag their way in so they could tout for business. They left willingly, albeit saying they would inform the HSE of our lack of co-operation and they would arrange for a local authority official to come and check. I've tried to get in touch with the HSE to check with them but that's difficult since the Infoline was stopped. I've tried googling HSE UK but could not find a mention of this company they said they were from. Does anyone know of this arrangement they have with the HSE and was this a genuine visit? Any thoughts from learned colleagues? Cheers all, Will

Or you could adopt and adhere to a company-wide policy of "no cold commercial calling", enabling these people to be politely turned away at reception? Many organisations have politely worded notices to this effect at reception.

Will From you describe, you said and did the right things. If the organisation is genuinely working with HSE its rep/s who called should have been able to provide evidence of working for HSE. Also, as you say, the local authority (LA) environmental health department rather than HSE is the OS&H enforcing authority for premises of your type. Sounds like you saved your employer from a scam. It's probably worthwhile telling the LA and HSE of your experience. If the rep/s left any card or other literature, HSE and the LA would probably be interested to have the details. During the early 1980s I recall from my time with HSE that there was a sales organisation which had an official looking title and crest and sent reps to cold-call on firms and try to frighten them into buying various posters which needed to be displayed by law to employees at that time. Apparently the reps gave the impression that they were quasi-inspectors and talked about penalties. I think someone high up in HSE told the organisation that impersonating an inspector was an offence (under the HSW Act 1974) and that it had better change its sales tactics. We never heard of the organisation again, so it seemed that the high up person's intervention was effective, along with perhaps HSE advice to firms through various channels that the organisation had no connection with HSE and was merely a sales organisation. Another bit of advice: HSE inspectors carry (or should carry) their warrants when on business. If anyone has any doubt about someone who says they're an inspector, ask to see their warrant. No doubt this advice pertains to various other types of officials. Genuine ones shouldn't be offended by being asked. However, some may be embarrassed if they don't have their warrants or other proof of identity on them, either because they've forgotten or don't think they need to bother.

quote=Graham Bullough]Will Another bit of advice: HSE inspectors carry (or should carry) their warrants when on business. If anyone has any doubt about someone who says they're an inspector, ask to see their warrant. No doubt this advice pertains to various other types of officials. Genuine ones shouldn't be offended by being asked. However, some may be embarrassed if they don't have their warrants or other proof of identity on them, either because they've forgotten or don't think they need to bother.

Hi They seem to be a commercial organisation trying it on http://www.hseuk.co.uk/ regards Dave

The website is registered to a private individual. You can check out the details of the owners of most websites from the official UK Web Domain Registration website. http://www.nic.uk/other/whois/

The guy may or may not be associated with the visit Will had. Best not burning him at the stake just yet.

Should read Steven Ballard- not as above Stephen. Sorry Jon

Upon checking this companies web site I note that they even have a law noted on their front page that does not exist Its unfortunate but we can do nothing about such companies as the business system we have allows anybody to set up a business in most areas without proper regard for many things and innocent people who know noting and are looking for support get trapped by such companies and only find out if there are problems when the real enforcers or claimers get involved so we should all be on our guard

The HSE never outsource their work. How could they? You need to be warranted to inspect premises. Ian a warrant is most definately a warrant and not a piece of plastic. About the size of a largish pocket diary, lovely brown leather, with all offical stuff inside. Definatelty no mistaking something else for it. ...and yes, Graham I remember the smell of leather on the warrants too. I also had to give mine back (not suprisingly), kept a photocopy though. Don't know why....and I probably broke the law or something by doing that!!!

Dazzling Puddock - Thanks for your response about LA enforcing officer warrants or at least one variation of them. One hopes the list of enforceable acts and regulations doesn't change too often. Also, if there are some 21 acts listed, the printed version on a warrant card might be quite small and hard to read. My recollection of the HSE warrant wording was that it was quite brief and included the fact that an HSE inspector was empowered to enforce the 1974 Act (name in full) and related legislation. Like Clairel, I made a photocopy of my warrant before giving mine back, though I'm now not sure why. Perhaps just for nostalgia even though it might have breached some law. Anyhow, it was a black and white photocopy so wouldn't have been of much use as an accessory for impersonating a HSE inspector. Though I don't know if anyone has ever done it, I guess that any ex-HSE inspector caught trying to masquerade as an HSE inspector would be in deep trouble. Somewhere I've still got my photocopy. It wouldn't be of much use nowadays for impersonation because people might just notice the age disparity between my face now and that on the mugshot taken some 34 years ago. Mind you, in terms of asthetic challenge (ugliness) there's been little improvement over the years! The warrant mugshot in my case looks like a forward facing version from an individual criminal/suspect record file kept by a police force or prison.

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I'm doing a site plan with details of our pest control. I am having to use excel- as I don't know how to use other software- and the fact the my employer won't buy any. I need to have a distraction!! Anyhoo- I copied and pasted from 'tinternet. Don't re-invent the wheel. I seem to have heard that before ;-) Andy

No- "Cost conscious". That's what they always say to me. Even on damn wages. Andy

And he's not been back to Chipping Sodbury since!

Jeez Ian, chill out a bit.

Well, that's not going to make any difference. So its not a piece of plastic, its a piece of smelly leather stuffed with bits of paper. It may make the bearer seem special but it means nothing to me. And it is simply ludicrous to suggest that I, or anyone else, could not mistake it for something else. Since I have no idea of what it should look like, tell me how I am to distinguish real from fake. Turn up out of the blue on my doorstep and you are likely to be left to stand in the rain at least until I have made a phone call. A leather wallet full of paper may seem uniquely important to you, I can only hope its big enough to deflect raindrops!

Yes, if you're not sure then by all means phone the HSE - but do they even have local office numbers nowadays? However, I was rarely asked to produce my warrant but when I did it was always taken at face value becuase it really does look very offiical. If you haven't seen one perhaps you wouldn't understand but if you saw one you'd know it was real. A bit like being able to spot a fake anything really, there are tell tale signs. I can't believe how grumpy some of you are being about me saying that a real HSE warrant just smacks of being a real warrant and would leave you in no doubt (IMO). By the way I was never an egotistical warrant wielding inspector. I felt no sense of power with it. I got no pleasure in the power it actually gave me. With power comes a lot of responsibility.

Well, of course, context is everything and in most cases there will be little doubt about the authenticity when "an inspector calls". However, the reality if there is almost no way of authenticating these things; the majority do not know what the documentation looks like or how easy it might be to copy. There are too many householders letting strangers into their home with little or no ID. Official advice, to demand that callers show ID, has been followed by a proliferation of fake ID that fools many with considerable ease. Though some question the idea that HSE warrant/ID cards are in some way 'special' and beyond challenge hints either at naivety or arrogance. And a business card, we buy they for £125 per 1,000. Take care when answering the door, watch out for dodgy £20 notes, and make a judgement based on multiple points of identification not just a wave of some cute leather wallet. As Graham says "If there is any doubt about anyone who offers/gives you their [warrant] card, the details on it can help (but shouldn't be relied upon totally) when checking out the person and also his/her organisation if applicable."