Rank: Forum user 
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Can someone advise at what point does a project become separate projects.
We are carring out some minor construction and refurbishment works in our factory.
There will be some alterations to the gas services from 30th Jan to 3rd Dec. There will then be a 1 week gap following which there will be 3 weeks of minor structural alterations and refurbishment work. There will then be a 2 week gap before a small mezzanine office will be constructed.
This all takes place in the same area as part of a departmental relocation. Do all elements of the work need to be considered as one under CDM, or can they be treat as three separate projects? The contractor that would be appointed as Principal Contractor will be directly carrying out the minor structural alterations and refurbishment work over the 3 week period. Due to the 1 week gap between this and the preceeding gas alterations, and the 2 week gap before the subsequent mezzanine office is constructed, of which they would otherwise have no part in, they would like to have these treat as three separate projects. Each would then be managed under our mangement of contractors procedure but without notification under CDM. No one is trying to avoid notification here, just simply looking to be practical and to understand whether this is possible.
Regards,
Richard
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Rank: Super forum user
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Hi Rhoes,
If the overall work will exceed 30 working days, or 500 "person" days then the project will become notifiable to HSE and a CDMC must be appointed. If notifiable there must be a "Principal Contractor". Although preferable only to have one Principal Contractor there can be more than one (See Approved Code of Practice L144 Paragraph 154 and 155- free to download)
If the project is not notifiable there is no legal requirement to appoint a "Principal Contractor" or CDMC but Client, Designer and Contractor(s) must still comply with their duties under CDM Regulations.
PH2
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Rank: Forum user
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Richard, I would see no problem in treating these elements as separate projects (minor refurb & maintenance). Bear in mind that CDM duties (on designers, etc) will still apply irrespective of notification. How much work is invoved in the construction of the small mezzanine office however? (is it likely to drag on for a few weeks? - if so, it could trigger notification). Regards, John
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Rank: Super forum user 
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This sort of question has cropped up a number of times before.
If the 3 projects are genuinely ‘discrete’ projects or projects in their own right i.e. if none rely on the others or could be done in isolation then I suggest that they can be treated as ‘separate’ and that notification and the duties associated with notification do not apply.
If on the other hand, the projects are ’connected’ with, or reliant on each other then I suggest that notification etc would. In the past the HSE have advised us that separating elements of what is essentially one project, for the purposes of avoiding notification and associated duties, wouldn’t be looked upon favourably.
Hope that all makes sense?
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Rank: Super forum user
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Talk to your local HSE office [if U can get a telephone number!?!?!?!?] or send in a question by email [but expect to wait a while for an answer! My longest wait to date is >1 year!] as expert interpretation is needed noting that in the past different offices have given different answers to the same question
In my view 'proximity' does exist so its one CDM management system [note that I said one management system not one invoice system nor one job etc] that is needed noting that even if its not 1 CDM management system a management system is still required for each and every job irrespective of notification parameters
All the above said; if you adequately manage each area properly it will not matter as the only time you will need to answer your question is if somebody is seriously injured or killed & the HSE pick up the case, or if you get a civil claim against U and even then the claimant will only be interested in how much £ they will receive!
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Your gas installation dates suggest best part of a year's work?
You can do this any way you want, however where there is any potential for overlap (and these things happen) then you want everyone to be clear as to who is the Principal Contractor (there can be only one at any one time) in these circumstances.
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Rank: Forum user
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Thanks for the resplies. I'm very familiar with the requirements of CDM 2007 but was keen to know if there was anything definitive that states under what circumstances projects must be considered as one or otherwise.
Regards,
Richard
P.S, my mistake Ron, I meant 30th Dec to 3rd Jan.
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Rank: Forum user
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As they are seperate phases with my perception seperate main contractors then you assess each phase on its merits for notification, it seems that the services may be part of enabling works which are short duration? if any of the phases are 30 days or 500 man days then notify them?
A main contractor could be a ppointed for the whole job if competent then only one notification is need plus the PIP and CPP
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Rank: Forum user
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Further to the information given before the HSE are not impressed by firms separating projects to avoid the project being notified and a CDM C being involved.
The gaps are not important as its the total time actually on site that counts and the no of person days used.
Hopefully the CDM C will bring to the party some insights about safer working both during the construction phase and its end use which will benefit the project as a whole.
As I do this for a living you can contact me directly if you wish for further advice.
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