One of our schools are worried about the communual use of water fountains. Some parents have suggested it is not hygeinic and increases the likelihood of children picking up viruses etc. Anyone got any thoughts on the topic?

http://www.devon.gov.uk/...rcoolersandfountains.pdf Google is amazing*, top link - *Other search engines exist.

The press, advertising agencies and similar have done a great job because nowerdays younger parents especially are obsessed with hygiene and are afraid of common dirt thus want everything superclean so buy all the products that are for sale and common sense plays no part where the facts are completely different but its an uphill struggle to convince people that such things are not as harmful as people think that they are In my view only remove such things if its highly ikely and really foreseeable that real harm from their use can be sensibily determined; but this line of thought is not liked by the finance people and money is usually the real reason behind any removal ideas and not service nor real health risks

What nonsense. Legionella doesn't thrive in cold water systems and even if there was sufficent bacteria present to potentially cause illness drinking the water won't cause harm as you have to inhale water droplets. The water coming out of fountains doesn't come at at sufficent force to produce an inhaleable spray. I understand concerns about bacteria becoming present on the spout from people's mouths. But in reality people don't touch the spout with their mouths do they? I'd say there's more risk from little darlings not washing their hands and eating food etc

I know it's not a workplace but the Workplace regs. 22, An adquate supply of drinking wholesome water shall be supplied (and ends with) A sufficient number of cups or drinking vessels shall be provided, unless the supply is from a jet from which a person can easily drink.

holmezy wrote: Nevertheless, some water fountains remain, and so long as they are used regularly, dont present a risk from legionella. Holmezy What nonsense. Legionella doesn't thrive in cold water systems and even if there was sufficent bacteria present to potentially cause illness drinking the water won't cause harm as you have to inhale water droplets. The water coming out of fountains doesn't come at at sufficent force to produce an inhaleable spray. I understand concerns about bacteria becoming present on the spout from people's mouths. But in reality people don't touch the spout with their mouths do they? I'd say there's more risk from little darlings not washing their hands and eating food etc

Forget the above post,,,,I got a bit ahead of myself! Claire, My reply was written with my tongue slightly in cheek, so you're response re "nonsense" is a little harsh? You are right, the leginella bugs do not thrive in cold water. And I know you have to inhale the bugs, and the liklihood of an aerosol sufficient to pose a risk is again low, but not impossible. (I have seen water fountains that create considerable aerosol, not many but some!) And I accept that there is low risk of catching legionella from using them. It is possible that the water supply pipe may rise in temp due to ambient temperature of the room, in this case, a toilet? It is also possible that the water pipes are not lagged, or close to heating pipes which may allow heat transfer. As you are probably aware, legionella bugs do start to proliferate above 20 degrees? Unfortunately neither of us are party to the full picture so cannot carry out a full legionella assessment, we can only assume? However, water fountains, especially those in toilet areas are considered by (and Chris is quite right) the overly worried parents and other mollycoddled folk, to present a hygiene risk. For this reason, the fountains tend not to be used, and if they are not used then by the guidance in L8, they become little used outlets or deadlegs, and L8 suggests that deadlegs should be removed or minimised where ever possible. So people are removing them as it is a cheaper aoption than flushing on a weekly basis? So (and placing my tongue firmly back into my cheek), the general concensus, for whatever reason, is that there are better ways, and better sites (ie not in the toilet)that can be used to supply fresh drinking water, and hence the current demise in the good old water fountain! Hope you have a very Merry Xmas and a Happy New Year (I removed "tongue in cheek" for the Xmas wishes) yours respectfully Holmezy

Here is a useful reference document that shows how one LA covers this matter. http://www.devon.gov.uk/...rcoolersandfountains.pdf It has lots of useful stuff within. At 6.4 it covers the maintenance and cleaning of water bottles. I wonder how many parents who might be concerned about water fountains even think about the risks from re-use bottles. At 5.1 second para it gives some pretty damning stats to support the concerns over water fountains that prompted this topic. I think it is well worth a read if only to gain an overview of how this area of risk in schools is managed in this particular LA. I should say I have no direct connection with this LA. It just happens to be in my neck of the woods. p48

As p48 says the Devon County Council document he quoted is a useful and interesting one. I wonder if my employer has a similar one for its schools. If so, it probably comes under the wing of the people who promote 'personal, social & health education' (PSHE). On a related note, I discerned from visits to a number of my employer's primary schools some years ago that it had become known that some of their male pupils tried to drink as little as possible before and during school hours. The reason for this was because they hated having to use the boys' toilets which were old and reeked strongly of urine. Though caretakers and cleaners were diligent and would regularly mop the toilets and also use air fresheners, their efforts were ineffective because the grouting between the porcelain components of sectional urinals, and also the floor tiles, was ancient and had been permeated over the years by urine. Therefore, the schools involved responded by arranging for the removal of the old sectional multi-user urinals and their replacement with either modern stainless steel equivalents or individual wall mounted units. As for the floors, these were replaced/covered with impervious heavy-duty slip-resistant sheet vinyl flooring. As these measures vanquished the smell, the boys were no longer at risk of physical & psychological health problems arising from self-imposed dehydration (as summarised in the Devon document). The caretakers and cleaners were also happier through being able to keep the upgraded facilities cleaner and far less smelly with notably less effort and time than before. Improving revolting toilet facilities for pupils has been just one of the various matters mentioned during training sessions over the years for headteachers, school governors, etc from my employer's schools. This was reinforced by showing to them a screen photo of an old sectional urinal in a room with an ancient tiled floor. (If anyone happens to make scratch cards with chemicals which simulate the smell of old urine, I guessed from the murmurs of recognition on seeing the photo that such cards weren't needed) My colleagues and I will never know for sure if showing the photo had much influence compared with probable advice to schools from the PSHE people. However, it's satisfying to be able to write that all of my employer's schools now seem to have decent toilet & washing facilities for their pupils. No apologies for mentioning this subject. Though far from glamorous and high tech, it was about a long overdue improvement which quietly made a notable difference in various ways to numerous people. Hopefully, others in OS&H with school connections (whether through work, as school governors or parents of pupils) can say that their schools also have decent facilities. If not, please use the above information as a prompt to push for appropriate improvements where needed.