Hi

I am reviewing the advise we give to staff getting into work and leaving work in inclement weather s(uch as snow and ice).

Also what our expectations are for staff required to travel to appointments in snow and ice eg to fix a leaking tap or repair a gas boiler.

I wondered what policy and advise are others give to staff in this area?
Thanks

What advise to give to employees when getting to work and going home???? I would be somewhat offended if my employer told me how to get to work safely. I am aged over 21 with fairly good common sense and know it can get slippery under foot in such weather conditions, hence I dont run or do anything silly. After all it is in public place and outside the control of the employer, but giving advise to ones employees sounds a good idea, just sounds a good idea you understand. Getting to work is outside your control anyway so advise them to take care and wear good sound footwear, about all you can do really.

The matter of travelling to various places when at work is however different, you can tell staff that they must observe certain safety requirements as they are then under your control. Specify the required footwear and clothing and monitor that this is used. Put in place a regular contact process to keep check on employees during the day if considered necessary, but just remind them to take care when walking and driving during such weather, and of course rely upon the fact that they are generally adults with some modecum of common sense.

Why do we have these issues year after year, snow and ice is not that rare in the UK.

quote=bob shillabeer]What advise to give to employees when getting to work and going home???? I would be somewhat offended if my employer told me how to get to work safely. I am aged over 21 with fairly good common sense and know it can get slippery under foot in such weather conditions, hence I dont run or do anything silly. After all it is in public place and outside the control of the employer, but giving advise to ones employees sounds a good idea, just sounds a good idea you understand. Getting to work is outside your control anyway so advise them to take care and wear good sound footwear, about all you can do really.

The matter of travelling to various places when at work is however different, you can tell staff that they must observe certain safety requirements as they are then under your control. Specify the required footwear and clothing and monitor that this is used. Put in place a regular contact process to keep check on employees during the day if considered necessary, but just remind them to take care when walking and driving during such weather, and of course rely upon the fact that they are generally adults with some modecum of common sense.

Why do we have these issues year after year, snow and ice is not that rare in the UK.

Am I wrong in thinking that it is the employers duties to ensure the safety of their employees at all times, and that includes getting to and from work, esp of you have a company vehile???????????

Hi Lawlee,

An employee is not the responsibility of an emloyer whilst they are not "at work". "At Work" is now widely accepted to mean at the place of work and about the business of work.

So, when travelling to and from the place of work (commuting) the employee is not the employer's responsibility. But, if travelling is part of the work then they are responsible.

As for the vehicle, if it's availabe for personal use and a taxable benifit and you are commutting then it's not the employer's responsibility per se.

Hope that's slightly clearer than mud?

I am in general agreement with what has been said here, how most of us get to work is our own choice and I do not believe that the employer has any duty with respect to that. I am lucky that my employer is able to be flexible with my hours on the rare occasion that traveling is difficult. I also agree that driving during the work day is a different matter. What I had never considered before was the use of a work vehicle used for a daily commute from home to the office/work base. If the employer INSIST that this journey is undertaken then I think the employer would have a greater duty for safety of the employee. In such a situation they may need to consider instructing the employee to leave the work vehicle at home and make other arrangements to get to the office.
I say again I have never considered this possibility before and would welcome the thoughts of others.

Hello, is the aspect of an employer not being responsible for an employees safety on their way home so clear cut?

Does the employer escape all liability if they work an employee so hard that they fall asleep whilst driving home and are killed or seriously injured as a result? The long hours culture and also shift work have been found to be significant factors in road traffic collision investigations.

I know this is a divergence from the original thread on winter problems, but I would be interested in views on this.

And another:

"A 21-year-old agricultural worker crashed his Ford Escort van and died while driving home after working three consecutive 19-hour shifts.
The company admitted failing to ensure the health and safety of workers and of other members of the public.
His job was to drive potato harvesting machines.
The van he was driving drifted into the path of an oncoming articulated lorry on the A10 near Ely in
October 2002, it was believed that he fell asleep at the wheel. The prosecution evidence showed that
the young man had been working shifts which began at around 6am and finished between 1am and 2am the following day, there was evidence that other employees were also working similar hours.
The company was fined the sum of £30,000 together with £20,000 legal costs."

Hi Carolyn

The company I work for are in the same position as yourself and that we need to ensure that are tenants still receive a service from ourselves (The Landlord) and without doubt our vehicles will struggle in snow/icey conditions and the risk is high that the vehicle could become stranded including the driver, therefore we hire in 1 4x4 which is used by the operative that is on call. Last year we experianced the worst snow fall for many years are our area of operation (Forest of Dean Gloucester) very realy see the spreader treating the roads and the 4x4 last year was a valuable tool which enabled use to continue to deliver a service. But as you can appreciate normal service will be interupted and tenants need to understand this. It would also be worth prioritising those who need the service more urgent ie tenant no heating with kids or the alderly.

With regards to employees unable to get into work or needing to leave early because of the fear of been snowned (been that person) in then our CEO can declare this as a snow day and allows staff to leave early and log on at home and continue to work. Again are in-house call centre can receive calls from their home when tenants call our office number. Its also worth staff ensuring that they carry food, hot drink, blanket and a shovel just in case - Regards Andy

Jake

"Getting to and from work is outside the remit of the employers duty of care"

Bit of a sweeping statement can you prove it?

Generally I agree but the point I was trying to make is that if am employer specifies how an employee gets to work then surly they have more of a duty?

Just a thought about "employer's duty of care". Surely it isn't limited to what's required by law. Why shouldn't employers demonstrate goodwill and moral care/concern for their employees wellbeing if they wish to do so? Also, if an employer wishes to offer practical advice (as opposed to dictating) to employees about coping with travelling in winter conditions, there's also an element of self-interest as regards business continuity. If the advice plays a part in helping employees travel to and from work without problems such as injury and/or damage to their vehicles, it's good for everybody. Also, if employees have fewer worries and distractions about travelling problems, they're likely to work better as well.

Also, while on the subject of winter driving conditions, it's worth reminding people (employees, colleagues, family and friends) about the need to regularly check their vehicle lights during long journeys on salted roads. Depending on conditions the airborne spray generated by vehicle wheels can soon form a hard salty crud over such lights and drastically reduce their brilliance.

Also, in very cold weather, the outdoor taps at some filling stations can freeze up as I found at one place in Cumbria before last Christmas. Fortunately we had thermos flasks filled with hot water to make drinks in case of emergency while travelling. Some of the water was very handy for cleaning my car lights, especially the headlights which had become very dim because of the salt crud which had formed on them during a motorway journey of only 50 miles or so since the previous cleaning.

Our approach was to not get involved in the decision as to whether employees travel to/from work as that warning should come from the government or it's agencies, the employee's assessments of local conditions and their own individual ability to cope with inclement weather. (e.g limited mobility)

A system was set up where a manager would notify relevant employees in plenty of time if offices or other locations were going to stay closed due to bad weather. This removed the risk of employees unnecessarily exposing themselves to the elements only to find their workplace closed. This would also apply to sites being visited by employees.

If workplaces were closed by managers then employees were paid. If an employee felt unable to travel when workplaces were open then unless they called to discuss the situation with their line manager then they either took a holiday or lost pay.

Manager's decisions to close early due to impending or actual conditions was also supported.

For peripatetic workers a joint decision was made by the employee and their line manager whenever the employee had any doubts about local conditions.

Not perfect by any means but we felt that we were controlling the things we could and not getting involved in matters that we shouldn't. All done in a supportive manner where, for example, if it was possible for employees to work from home then that was allowed in the short term.

Having said that one of my pals was not so fortunate. In his employers they were very hard nosed and if offices were closed then employees had to take holiday or lose pay. Apparently it worked the first time as it was a retrospective decision. On the next snow fall and icy conditions the sickness absence report was pretty full!

p48

RayRap

I know I am playing devils advocate here and as I say I agree how we get to work is up to us and there is no responsibility on employer, but consider this suggestion.

Employee A is provided with a company car. There is poor weather conditions overnight the transport agency advices only essential travel and public transport is suspended. Employee A rings his employee to explain he is unable to get to work and will take a days holiday. The employer states that Employee A has been provided with a car and had better use it to get to work or look for another job.

Employee A cannot afford to lose his job so gets in car has an accident and is severely injured.

Duty of care?

Now I know I am suggesting a very extreme situation and a reasonable employer would not take such a line. But it might surprise you to learn that there are some very unreasonable employers out there look at the In Court section of SHP every month and I think may occasionally find an example.

Various marine accidents/incidents arise through fatigue. As just one example have a look at the webpage at http://www.maib.gov.uk/c.../Jack_Abry_II_Report.pdf It comprises a report by the Marine Accident Investigation Branch (MAIB) regarding a French trawler "'Jack Abry II" which ran aground on the Isle of Rum, one of the Scottish Inner Hebrides, on 31st January this year after the captain fell asleep while alone on watch. The report is clear and worth a read as it describes how fatigue and limited sleep during the previous 3 nights evidently affected the captain. It adds that the environment inside the wheelhouse -warm, stuffy and with a music system in use - was also a significant factor in being conducive to relaxation and slumber.

This prompts an argument that the interiors of cars and other vehicles are too comfortable nowadays. In the 'bad old days' when vehicles weren't heated and/or enclosed, perhaps drivers were less prone to falling asleep!

According to a Maritime & Coastguard Agency webpage at
http://www.dft.gov.uk/mc...ons/prosecutions2011.htm
(scroll down to the foot of the page) the captain was prosecuted and fined £3000 on 2nd February, notably only two days after the incident. Fortunately the captain and his crew were all rescued from the vessel. However, the MAIB report mentions an incident in which another trawler operated by the same company ran aground in the Outer Hebrides in 2001 after its captain fell asleep. It adds that the captain of the Jack Abry II had been the captain of another French fishing vessel when it capsized and foundered in 2000. He was one of only three survivors and rescued by helicopter after several hours in the water. Eight of the crew lost their lives. (note: The report doesn't mention what factors were involved in 2000 or where capsize occurred)

By the way I'm no expert on maritime safety. I saw the "Jack Abry II" several months ago as a passenger on the local ferry boat, and subsequently used the internet to find out more. The vessel had been declared a "write-off" and might still remain where it ran aground, especially if its position is such that salvaging it for scrap is not reasonably practicable (i.e. too expensive and/or difficult).

Just to add to cliveg's point about prosecutions of employers under traffic law, I understand that when investigators of road accidents find that driver distraction through using a mobile phone could be a factor, they use their considerable powers to make detailed enquiries about such use, including whether or not business calls are involved. However, my knowledge of such matters is scant: Does anyone know of cases where employers have been prosecuted and convicted in relation to mobile phones in such circumstances?

Brian, I agree there are some very unreasonable employers out there and many different scenarios could apply. In some of my roles I have known that I might be called into work at short notice 'stand-by' but where I have been socialising I have usually made it quite clear that I was unavailable. If an employer insisted I came to work out of normal hours, then I would have to refuse and possibly face the adverse consequences. I do not believe the employer could make any disciplinary charges stick. Notwithstanding that, if I drove to work or attended work in a safety critical industry with alcohol in my system I could face much more serious consequences. People have to make decisions...and justify those decisions on occasions.

An employer does have a duty of care for those using the road, as does one road user to another, so how they behave and what conditions or state they may be in could have a profound effect on that DoC. An employer forcing, or even condoning an employee to drive whilst unfit due to, say fatigue, could be prosecuted. However, it is not common and only the extreme cases tend to end up in court.

Good night and don't have nightmares.

Bob, I suspect my post was not completely clear. I have been 'on call' and therefore I have made sure I have been alcohol free during that period. However, there have been other axons where I have NOT been on call but may be required if there was an incident ie during weekends where we have a possession. On these occasions I have made it clear that I may not be available ie engaged at a social function. The point I was trying to make was that even if an employer insisted I attend site I would not do so if I had been socialising. No one can force you to attend work and the consequences are greater than the wrath of the employing manager.

Carolyn,

I can only briefly express my company stance on employee driving policy. We have a number of employees who can potentially make motorway trips which necessitate meetings with design teams for HAZOP's, etc. However, our stance is that all other practical resources have been exhausted before employees commit to hire cars and drive (e.g. Preference in using video link, spider phones, etc). I know this doesn't quite fit into your scenario but the above stance highlights the need for risk assessment prior to undertaking a work related journey. Obviously avoiding the need to travel is first in the hierarchy of control. So, where the road conditions are hazardous due to inclement weather, there is an expectation placed upon the employee to consider his / her own personal safety and also on the employer to ensure contingency plans are in place as part of their policy. Our company driving procedures have all been issued and briefed to all designated drivers. To add, we also have a text-based message system which is used to provide weather updates. In relation to your scenario, in terms of severe weather conditions and known dangerous road conditions, our policy is that driving should only be undertaken in pure safety / emergency conditions (e.g. A need to maintain minimal manning levels for teams operating a nuclear plant). If your employees work is not safety related, in circumstances which you describe, then my advice would be to re-arrange the work.