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Dave Rodger  
#1 Posted : 22 December 2011 11:53:58(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Dave Rodger

Hi I'm looking for advice to help protect our premises over the Christmas period from thefts ect, Can we further secure our final fire exit doors with chains and locks over the festive period when our premises are empty or do we need to keep them as available exits to assist the fire service and the intruders if there was a fire on our premises while we are closed? Thanks
MaxPayne  
#2 Posted : 22 December 2011 11:59:12(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
MaxPayne

2nd post this morning on the same vein. Believe you can so long as the premises are unoccupied, but don't forget security staff (if you have any) or cleaners etc, that may be in the premises during their normal duties. I'd probably want to document that decision somewhere, suggest the FRA reflects to need for security and the measures to remove those when the premises are again in-use.
JohnV  
#3 Posted : 22 December 2011 14:17:50(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
JohnV

Dave, if the fire brigade know the building is unoccupied they will not go inside to fight fires (unless there is a compelling reason for them to do so, eg to save an intruder trapped inside, the origin of a fire at the early stages is inside the building, etc). They are primarily interested in saving life not property, so will fight the fire from outside. Your property insurers are probably the people to consult on this and I guess their response will be governed by considering whether the value of the building exceeds the value of the contents (assuming a total loss scenario)
messyshaw  
#4 Posted : 23 December 2011 17:50:59(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
messyshaw

johnv wrote:
Dave, if the fire brigade know the building is unoccupied they will not go inside to fight fires (unless there is a compelling reason for them to do so
What nonsense! Fire crews routinely enter known empty buildings to 'offensively' fight a fire. If this 'no entry if empty' claim were true, there would be countless commercial premises burnt out every night. Of course a dynamic risk assessment (DRA) is made by fire crews and constantly assessed. There are 1001 matters that need to be considered during such a DRA. Whether the building is empty is just one of those matters. As far as securing the empty premises, no problems. So you can brick up the building if you like, as long as you de-brick the building before it's occupied again ! The RP's control measures & safety systems (as determined by the fire risk assessment) relate only to relevant persons. Fire crews and intruders are not relevant persons so can be 'ignored' in terms of the RRO and FRA. I would ignore asking your insurers advice, unless your premises have ultra high value stock or some other type of unique scenario. As burglaries are more common over Xmas than fires, they will be only too pleased if you beef up security. A skim through your policy should confirm any such requirement.
firesafety101  
#5 Posted : 24 December 2011 13:51:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

The first attending fire officer will determine the fire fighting method, and if it should be from inside the premises or from outside. There is no way of knowing who will be that first attending officer so I would advise to expect an internal rather than external. As far as I am concerned, and as stated above your fire risk assessment will determine your actions. If this is something out of the ordinary you can review the fra and include extra security over the festive holiday period. Don't forget to review again when you go back to normal. Notify the FRS and they will expect the extra security and act accordingly.
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