Hi ,

Could anybody help me , my new manager has taken the visitors book away from the office block and not replaced it with any other system for identifying who is in the building at any one time of the day. My concern is that if there is an incident of any sorts we would use the visitors book to account for anyone missing in the building. I believe this is the wrong thing to do and could anyone advise me on the next step i should take .

I'm sorry but I think visitors books in most cases are a total waste of time. I visit lots of premise and its not unusual to find the person before me in the book signed in 3 days before and if you believe the book is still there!

As for using them in a fire situation, unless the visitor is going to be left on their own for any reason then surly you would also notice a staff member missing.

I'm afraid visitors books are another of those thing that people seem to think they must have under H&S but most have no idea how to use them.

Like Brian at #3 I don't think reliance should be placed on visitor books in relation to fire precautions. It's likely that few establishments have a sufficiently rigorous system which records the departure of every visitor. Take schools for example: They are or should be rigorous about checking in visitors but, for various reasons, are not always diligent about noting when visitors leave.

Even so, I recommend to my employer's schools that they each operate a visitor book to keep a record (including who, from which organisation, when, why and to see whom) of every visitor, including regular contractors and even the director of education (or whatever his title is nowadays). Including the visitor's vehicle registration can be useful at locations with limited parking where visitors sometimes have no option but to double park. Also, though there's little need for a visitor book on OS&H grounds, schools and other establishments certainly find that being able to look back through details in such a book can be very useful at times and far better than relying on a receptionist's memory.

Graham.

A very rational and reasoned approach as to the uses of a visitors book but one which unfortunately I think few organisations will follow. I think for most the visitors book sits along side the PAT testing which we all know must be done annually!

Claert how do you know that control of visitors is inadequate? I regally visit premise where I am accompanied by the occupier at all time surly this is enough to fulfill the Occupiers Liability Act - why do we insist on make assumptions on this forum?

with referance to visitors on site and keeping track of them
where i work we do not keep track of anyone there is not even an assembly point for anyone during a fire
in the hospital we have 1000 patients over ten floors
we can have another 1000+ visitors at any one time also staff another 1000+ or so then there are the thieves the vagabonds vagrents and other people just walking through
we do horizontal evacuation in the event of a fire but it would be great if someone could tell me how to keep a track of the persons. or are we breaking some act such as the occupancy liability act of 84 etc it is even written in the fire brigade procedure there may be a few 1000 people in the grounds should an incident occur does this breach the RRO
we have 4 entrances and only 1 main reception is manned
no book

Kate

Even that does not ensure you have emptied the building, probably 98% confidence but that means about 2 people for every 100 occupants are missed. The reality is that once numbers creep over around 20-30 people or there are a number of seperate rooms/areas then recorded presence and departure become a necessity not a luxury. Yes many books and electonic systems are abused and fail but that is bad managment not a redundant system. Many Fire Services will regard the DRA as inadequate if there is no means of recording the number/names of people present in the building and a system of roll call in some manner.

Bob

At some types of premises it's possible to have a reasonably effective system for recording who is on site, and at others, e.g. a hospital as described by psycho, it's downright impossible. However, even at the places where it's reasonably practicable, e.g. primary schools, there's no guarantee that such systems are foolproof.

Bob - DRA? Did you mean FRA (fire risk assessment)? Anyhow, I can't agree that many fire services would expect organisations to diligently maintain records of the names/numbers of people present in a building and have a roll call system. Even at premises where such arrangements are feasible, surely fire officers will recognise that such arrangements are fallible for various reasons as discussed in earlier responses to this topic.

Can anyone suggest how many people are harmed or killed in fire-related incidents at non-domestic premises where such arrangements are feasible (which therefore rules out premises like hotels, hospitals, etc) because such arrangements have failed in some way? My guess is that the numbers are nil/negligible - because other fire precautions exist and will tend to compensate for the understandable shortcomings of occupancy recording & roll call arrangements.

In posing the above question as part of the discussion/debate about this topic, I make no claim to be an expert on fire matters. However, I hope the question will prompt responses from forum users with far better knowledge and experience.

Speak to your manager and raise your concerns, I am sure he will be reasonable?