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Karlsnr  
#1 Posted : 29 December 2011 14:12:13(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Karlsnr

Can anyone advise me on this principle of assessment, I have down loaded lots of information and pro-formas etc, but what I am looking for is a course to attend to bring me upto date, I am unable to locate a training provider, also been informed that not many companys use this system but need to consider this approach along side our implementation of ISO 18001. Any comments, guidance or information will be appreciated.
Psycho  
#2 Posted : 29 December 2011 16:57:11(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Psycho

FMEA is to analyse each component of a system in order to identify causes of its failure and the effect of this failure on the whole system google '' fmea course uk '' and you will get loads of providers usally a 1 day course and then you will be the expert (right) cost £250-£350 if i was you i would try and get someone else on the course to become the expert otherwise you could be spending all your days trying to find the failure rate of a detector head which is powering a door which has a megnetic hold open once the door closes it then sets off a supression system , wonder what the failure rate is of this system , try getting this info from the manufacturer it takes a day and massive run around you then can use the great tool of event tree analsis multiply them together then add the rusults then takaway from 1 and you get the failure rate in years here is a famous saying by persons who have been lumbered in the past FMEA i would rather do risk assessments or chew silver paper and never become an expert in anything especcially after a one day course anyway good luck and enjoy the course its downhill from there
JJ Prendergast  
#3 Posted : 29 December 2011 18:30:08(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
JJ Prendergast

I have done quite a few FMEAs. I think you are getting FMEAs confused with QRA/event tree analysis/fault trees. There is no need to establish/get failure rate data for components for an FMEA or FMECA study. It is usual just to use a simple risk matrix for the 'C' bit in FMECA studies. If you require further help PM me.
Psycho  
#4 Posted : 30 December 2011 08:52:46(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Psycho

JJ Prendergast wrote:
I have done quite a few FMEAs. I think you are getting FMEAs confused with QRA/event tree analysis/fault trees. There is no need to establish/get failure rate data for components for an FMEA or FMECA study. It is usual just to use a simple risk matrix for the 'C' bit in FMECA studies. quote] Surely they both run hand in hand FMEAs help identify and prioritize a multitude of potential failure modes and causes. A Fault Tree Analysis focuses on a single failure mode and identifies all of the failure mechanisms that can result in that failure mode. Typically, you would start with the FMEA then use an FTA on the highest risk failure modes. FTA can be done with or without the probabilities. The probability approach is normally used when trying to predict the probability of that failure mode occurring as in a reliability program. i cant see the point in saying that part of the system will fail then not taking it down to its component or protection leval
firesafety101  
#5 Posted : 30 December 2011 12:27:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

Is this really a health and safety responsibility? I certainly would not get involved with this and I have been in H&S for more than 20 years.
pete48  
#6 Posted : 30 December 2011 15:28:47(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
pete48

FireSafety. Fairly common if you work in an operational role, especially with a significant engineering element, or with Product Development teams. Management of Change and all that stuff? However, I also know many who have never used it in their long careers. p48
firesafety101  
#7 Posted : 30 December 2011 18:06:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

Yes but is it a H&S role or is it just something that the H&S person has taken on. It sounds more enginering to me?
JJ Prendergast  
#8 Posted : 31 December 2011 10:30:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
JJ Prendergast

Firesafety101 Is this really a health and safety responsibility? I certainly would not get involved with this and I have been in H&S for more than 20 years. FMEA/HAZOP/QRA are very much part of health and safety. These techniques are very common in safety engineering jobs in the oil/gas and nuclear secctors. Job titles are ususally 'Safety Engineer' or 'Technical Safety Engineer' of 'Process Safety Engineer' We usually work in engineering design offices - such jobs require engineering/science qualifications. IOSH/NEBOSH qualifications are a bonus. It is also very helpful to have a good understanding of conventional health and safety and the way in which plant/equipment operators will use/operate a finished design. Effectively the 'safety' bit of the job is to ensure risks and hazards are either designed out of a project or minimised before building the finished oil/process plant. So we still need the usually range of knowledge concerning PUWER/CDM/PtW/WaH etc etc. Ultimately, making the life easier for Health and Safety Managers/Occupational Safety Managers etc at the shop floor level. I would suggest most people on this forum, operate at this level. It all goes to show that careers in health and safety have a very broad base. As I have often said, it is not necessary to have IOSH quals to work in a safety career. Psycho The point I was making, was that failure rate data as such, isn't needed for an FMEA study. Often failure rate data (in my experience) is used in other supporting design engineering documents and risk assessment and RAMS reports (Reliability, Availability and Maintainability Studies) Data in Event/Fault Trees can be quite generic and/or using broad assumptions about failure rates of equipment or the liklihood of undesirable event. BS60812 provides guidance on FMEA studies
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