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Lawlee45239  
#1 Posted : 03 January 2012 14:45:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Lawlee45239

I call for these to be standardised, and on a yearly basis all companies do them, and issue to Clients. I have a number of them to do for the new year, and its annoying me that its the same info but in different formats. Rant over!
A Kurdziel  
#2 Posted : 03 January 2012 16:25:59(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

That’s nothing! At least you have been given a form that is designed for your area of work ie construction. Just before Christmas I was given a questionnaire, that was obviously designed for someone who was expected to be building wind turbines and I was expected to complete it on behalf of one of our scientists, who was going to do a literature review on the impact of wind turbines on bird migration. Yes he was going to be sitting in our office for 6 months reading about birds and windfarms! We contacted the company and they said that we had to fill in the form; otherwise our bid would not be successful, as it was part of the tendering process for all sub-contractors. So we had to explain how we managed work at high, risk easement and so on- I could have spent a day doing Christmas Shopping!
John Bartlett  
#3 Posted : 03 January 2012 16:45:37(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
John Bartlett

From my prospective as a consultant this comes under one of the third parties that Lofestede referred to in his recent report as making life more complicated than it should be. The intention of these schemes, I am tempted to use the phrase scams, is honourable but the reality is they are a nightmare that serve no purpose at all. They generate unnecessary paperwork, keep procurement departments in a job [they don't understand them and just tick the box] adding fuel to the fire that everyone in h&s is nuts!!! Most of us aren't, its the people that have a little knowledge that are the most dangerous.
Stedman  
#4 Posted : 03 January 2012 18:00:55(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Stedman

In construction (in theory) there should only be one single question relating to the management of safety. Q. Please describe and provide the necessary evidence to show how your organisation meets the ‘Core criteria for demonstration of competence’ outlined in Appendix 4 of the Approved Code of Practice for the 2007 CDM Regulations? A lot of construction organisations will have already self assessed themselves against this comprehensive specification and will already have a statement of competence with the necessary evidence that they can provide at short notice. Even though the forth aim of the 2007 Regulations was to clearly ‘discourage unnecessary bureaucracy’, I am still waiting for this approach to be used when it comes to Pre-Qualification.
boblewis  
#5 Posted : 03 January 2012 18:26:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
boblewis

Stedman Why not a simple Demonstrate how your organisation manages its own and its employees competence. Appendix 4 is far from the best list for assessing competence and confuses/conflates a number of issues Bob
Stedman  
#6 Posted : 03 January 2012 19:39:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Stedman

Bob, How did I know you would respond? Happy New Year! All that we have simply done is taken the table which can be found in Appendix 4 of the 2007 CDM ACOP and identified our own answer and evidence in the third Column and it is as simple as that. Example for Criteria 1 (Health and safety policy and organisation for health and safety) our answer would be: (Signed safety policy statement is contained within appendix 1 of this document).
TonyMurphy  
#7 Posted : 04 January 2012 08:46:34(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
TonyMurphy

I am with Stedman and Bob. I completed a Pre Qual recently which asked for my(our) Corporate Social Responsibility Policy. Thank God for google!
Lawlee45239  
#8 Posted : 04 January 2012 09:16:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Lawlee45239

i dont mind doing them, its just that they are all laid out different, if there was a standard one across the board (construction) it would make the process a lot quicker
bob youel  
#9 Posted : 04 January 2012 10:37:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bob youel

I agree that too many cooks are making the same broth hence the pre qual soup is spoiled! We should also note that every CDM PC [or client] also has to manage the other laws that apply to that CDM job, so simply using the CDM regs as the overall reference is not good enough in my opinion - that said its still an easy exercise to incorporate the other areas that apply. However most clients in my opinion do not have competent people checking the pre qual returns nor setting appropriate questions so having a system by which you comply with their thoughts is better for them irrespective of other areas. And we all know that what is written down is not usually what takes place in the real world! I believe that one CDM prequal template incorporating all the CDM areas and other most common laws that also apply to the average job e.g. Fire, first aid etc. can easily be put in place for the whole country and it would cover 80% of all areas but if the HSE did that many organisations with fingers in the pie would not like that approach
smitch  
#10 Posted : 04 January 2012 12:23:02(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
smitch

Unfortunately its a case of "He who pays the piper" If any company has there own format for the questionnaire then that's what you'll get, granted it would be great if all companies used the same form or format, but chances of that happening are IMHO very slim.
RobH  
#11 Posted : 04 January 2012 14:09:43(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
RobH

On a more positive note, improvement has been made with the move to electronic questionnaires, the questionnaire is stored electronically and you just log in and update any new information and update insurance details more companies in construction are using specialist IT companies to provide these resources. At least it saves completing the whole Questionnaire each time and all regions of the same company can access your details remotely. (its still a nuisance filling it in the first time!).
wood1e  
#12 Posted : 04 January 2012 21:28:55(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
wood1e

Within construction we are moving forward with the SSIP scheme. Which in the main is reducing the pre qual burden. There must always be an element of project specific responses. BY recognition and acceptance of suitably audited registration schemes it is possible to reduce the repeat questioning.
boblewis  
#13 Posted : 04 January 2012 23:45:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
boblewis

Wood1e Even the all SSIP schemes put together cannot cope with all the pre qual work - as I have said oft before there is simply not enough people available with the skills and time to do it. Construction clients and CDMCs really are at the root of the widely varying formats, questions etc and I see no real sign of change. Appendix 4 seems to be the bible currently but I have my doubts about its real usefulness. I think it will need the weight of chartered professional body/bodies to get a unified one agreed in much the same way as standard forms of contract. In this regard I think RIBA, ICE, CIOB and IOSH could have a major impact in producing uniformity BUT only by acting in concert, not alone. Bob
John Murphy  
#14 Posted : 05 January 2012 08:52:56(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
John Murphy

Dear Colleagues May I refer readers to my contribution today in the "Achilles" thread (http://forum.iosh.co.uk/default.aspx?g=posts&t=103547). Kind Regards John SSIP Past Chair
Mr.Flibble  
#15 Posted : 05 January 2012 18:16:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Mr.Flibble

During my consultancy days, I had a questionnaire fail because we hadn't included a Risk Assessment for Working at Height.....it was for carpet fitters....
boblewis  
#16 Posted : 05 January 2012 21:41:27(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
boblewis

Haven't you heard of thick pile carpets!!!!!!:-) I know the feeling though. Apparently kitchen fitters have the same problems because they use step ups.
Stedman  
#17 Posted : 06 January 2012 10:32:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Stedman

Wood1e wrote:
Within construction we are moving forward with the SSIP scheme. Which in the main is reducing the pre qual burden. There must always be an element of project specific responses. BY recognition and acceptance of suitably audited registration schemes it is possible to reduce the repeat questioning.
Woody, I beg to differ; SSIP does not in any way reduce the pre-qual burden. I work for a large construction organisation where we are registered with more than one SSIP, we have 18001 and I could reel off a list of certificates and schemes that we have to jump through in order to eligible for tendering with many organisations. We clearly meet the SSIP criteria (which include the display screen assessment); however it does not explain how we meet this criteria, which is why we then have to go through whole PQQ process.
Stedman  
#18 Posted : 06 January 2012 10:35:51(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Stedman

Mr.Flibble wrote:
During my consultancy days, I had a questionnaire fail because we hadn't included a Risk Assessment for Working at Height.....it was for carpet fitters....
In the past, for demolition, we used to put old carpet down on scaffolding in order to catch falling debris! I don’t know if this is still done?
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