Rank: Forum user
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Morning,
some advice please , we had the following accident:
(Injured party) had clocked out of work and started walking towards the staff exit. A female colleague exited the female toilets, which is situated next to the staff exit. As the college left the toilets they both collided causing IP to trip over colleges foot, causing IP to fall. It has since been confirmed that IP has a un-displaced fracture to wrist, resulting in her absence from work for an estimated 3 weeks (not fit for work).
Would you report?
Many Thanks
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Rank: Super forum user
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Personally, I'd report it. Technically the IP was still 'at work', so I'd play safe if this was me and report just in case. In any event, if full details of what happened are put on the report form, as outlined in your post, I'd suggest it is unlikely there will be much follow up anyway.
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Rank: Forum user
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Reportable. And lots of learning to be had which may stop further incidents.
And remember all, January is the worst month for accidents.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Whether she was "at work" or not is a red herring in this case - i.e the clocking out isn't relevant IMHO. Was it "arising out of or in connection with work"? Seems to me the answer is yes, therefore it is reportable.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Heather Collins wrote:Whether she was "at work" or not is a red herring in this case - i.e the clocking out isn't relevant IMHO. Was it "arising out of or in connection with work"? Seems to me the answer is yes, therefore it is reportable.
That's what I was alluding to - however, reading my post back, it was perhaps not that clear - it was a bit early for me though... ;o)
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Rank: Super forum user
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Just to play devils advocate....In the case of "arising out of or in connection with work"? how would you state that it was in connection with work, other than she was at work?
The employees were not carrying out a work activity that would be covered by a RA and there was no hazards in place other than someone not looking where they were going.
Other than moving the toilets or toilets door, would could you do to stop this from happening again? as this could happen to anyone, at anytime exiting from any doorway which leads onto a corridor.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Mr Fibble has a valid point………………….
Given the IP is a work and using works facilities naturally draws you to the conclusion that it is "arising out of or in connection with work"
Using your accident investigation findings - Consider the key factors provided in L73 and make a decision. We don’t know what the walkways, lighting, floors surfaces etc were like - you do - its never black and white……………………………
Providing you make a sensible judgment based on the facts - you'll be fine.
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Rank: Forum user
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As others have answered the clocking in issue is irelevant as IP was an employee in the workplace and as person in control of premises it should be reported.
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Rank: Super forum user
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The accident happened at a workplace and resulted in a RIDDOR reportable condition. It's immaterial as to whether the injured employee was clocked on or not at the time. From the information available I concur with Mr Flibble that there seems to be little or nothing which can be done to prevent similar accidents in future. Also, the likelihood that HSE will investigate the accident after receiving the RIDDOR notification is probably very low or even nil in my opinion.
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Rank: Super forum user
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As I see it the aim of RIDDOR is to make sure that all significant incidents are reported to the HSE. To make sure this is done, the list of things that have to be reported is as inclusive as possible- so even incidents like this, where it is difficult to see what can be done to improve matters have to be reported. As has been said before on this forum, just because something is reported under RIDDOR, does not make the employer/occupier liable for anything nor does it guarantee a visit from the HSE. Even when they had more resources they only checked up on the more significant incidents; now I doubt they’ll come for anything less than a serious injury/death or if an employer kept submitting the same sort reports over a short period of time ie they were obviously doing something wrong and not putting it right..
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Rank: Super forum user
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The point I was trying to make was that the accident wasn't a result of the employer failing to ensure that safety measures were in place (assuming all conditions are fine etc) and It wasn't the employees acting unsafely (apart from bad timing), so why report? What usefulness would the HSE have for knowing about this accident?
I once had an employee trip over his own feet and break his arm. The floor area was clear, lighting was suitable, no nose, no distractions, no trip hazards, he just stumbled (we had it on CCTV too). I spoke to the HSE and they said there was no need to report as the accident wasn't a result of work or in connection with work.
Normally I would just say report it anyway, but I, like many people are KPI's against RIDDORS I know what it is like deciding if its a RIDDOR or not.
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Rank: Forum user
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Thanks to all for your responses. We did report this as a Riddor.
Just FYI, the area is a corridor, good flooring, plenty or room to manoeuvre, good lighting. It does appear this was wholly due to a lack of attention by those involved, but was questioning the reporting as in the previous post the HSE did inform us not report another similar accident as it was not connected with or as a result of a work related activity.
Regards
B
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Rank: Forum user
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Morrison,
I am with most of the other posts and believe that this is reportable. How sure are you that it was an HSE inspector that told you not to report this type of accident in the future? My understanding is that the Riddor site is manned by non HSE professionals, so I am a bit skeptical about not reporting this in the future.
Happy to be proved wrong!
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Rank: Super forum user
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There are so many RIDDOR posts on here, its actually scary to think that we are confused ourselves about when and when not to report.
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Rank: Super forum user
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I have couple of reasons whey there is confusion - 1) its an awfully scripted regulation with grey areas everywhere - regulators, managers and solicitors and many more are confused by it.
2) (and I'll probably get some stick here but) most of us in this game commence with taking the NGC and in this qual we learn the basics and one basic we are told and even examined on. (years since I did mine so if it changed I apologies)
We are all told that examples on the most common causes for reporting (2)
A) all accident that go over 3 day are reportable
B) all non employees being taken directly to hospital are reportable
There is little education on the factor "arising out of or in connection with work" L73 provides information to help you address this. Not enough in true style!!!
Most people make a judgment on points A&B and stick to it and report all accidents in these categories
My theory I may be wrong!!!!
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Rank: Forum user
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Purely on the basis of protecting or negating the organisation from potential probable loss I would report it.
Not to do so could be leaving the organisation open to scrutiny in whatever form that might avail itself in.
WE have had some complex questions on this same issue to do with days off/ annual leave where the person who had the incident reported to was confused as to whether they should report the accident as Riddor reportable. My advice was Yes!
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Rank: Forum user
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I agree with MR Fibber, I would not report this.....
......this is not in connection with a work activity...not work related.
Would anyone report an injury to an employee if he/she hurt his/her back retrieving the coffee jar by stretching in their break time?
MUST REPORT AND WE WILL REPORT IT ANYWAY ARE CAUSING CONFUSION.
Common sense.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Having over 2800 employees to manage I have has quite a bit of exposure with respect to RIDDOR reporting in the past. In my opinion this is not reportable because there was no work activity being carried out at the time.
This opinion is base on the spirit of the law and not the letter of the law and as previously stated there is not much that can be done to control another likewise accident happening in the future.
My opinion is also based on a respected HSE inspector whom gave me the following examples;
Person walking down the corridor, falls and is off work more than 3 consecutive days = not reportable (no work activity)
Person carrying files walking down the corridor, falls and is off work for more that consecutive 3 days = reportable (carrying the files is a work activity)
I know that this is a crazy example and I expect the bombardment of responses, as I would expect on such a forum. The key factor is 'arising out of or in connection with work'.
I agree with the post above that this is a poorly scripted regulation albeit it has been around for many years. DP is right about learning the basic requirements of RIDDOR to pass NGC examinations.
The real test to understanding RIDDOR is using it over a number of years.
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