It is with sadness I note that many of the people who's postings I have valued over the years are making less and less postings these days. I also not an increased tendency to attack anyone who dares offer a different view to certain posters. I wonder if these two factors are linked? If the work we all do was clear cut with one answer every time very few of us would actually have a job! To be fair I can do without the comments I have been receiving recently. I hope over the years I have been some help to some people but this is very likely my final posting. Good luck to everyone.

Lively debate is one thing, but dishing out abouse is another. This is supposed to be a professional forum, not a social network chatroom. Also, as the general forum is open to anyone, threads with abusive posts do not exactly show the industry in a good light. Just my opinion.

I agree with Brian. People should be allowed to contribute without being criticised for having a different view. Some members are quite nasty to others, not professional at all. It does put me off.

Heather, I would suggest that this is abuse: "Paul is looking for advice on how to solve his problem, not just a h&s geek to shrug his shoulders and say 'Oh don't like the look of that' without justification and rational argument."

The joys of working in H&S I get abuse most days.... I think on any public forum you need to be prepared for some harsh comments. Some people troll (deliberately post derogatory comments / wind people up) just for the fun of it. That's what the mods are for.

It is a shame anyone should feel 'abused' by another using this forum. There is no doubt there are some lively debates from time to time and these can lead to disparaging remarks. Indeed, I was the recipient of some particularly unkind remarks recently by an individual hiding behind a pseudonym. Some people cherish their views more than others and do not accept differing opinions too well. In this industry one has to be a bit thick skinned, but I do hope the new year brings with it some tolerance for other people's views. Happy new year.

And as if to highlight the effectiveness of this forum, you must read the thread on " STAR" interview techniques in the careers forum. The link tells you all you need to know. They say every day is a school day. I never heard of it before but am now ten times more knwlegeable than I was at 8.00am this morning. Thankyou

What an interesting post, and for reasons that some will understand more than others, I feel compelled to post. Hopefully, the generality of my post won’t be in breach of the mods ‘warning/request’ at #14. I along with many others (now) use a pseudonym. My original reason for doing so was as the result of ’abuse’ that I was subjected to, which I didn’t report to the mods but for which the mods did subsequently take action - thank you mods. But it does also have the added advantage that I can discuss things without the risk of compromising my employer or myself in my employers eyes. I am not sure if I consider that hiding for hidings sake, is either wrong or something to be ’ashamed’ of, merely a sensible precaution. However, in a more recent ‘encounter’ I actually felt bullied. The poster may not have considered it to be bullying but as many will know and accept, bullying, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. It has no place on this forum. That some people cherish their views more than others and do not accept differing opinions too well, is an inevitable consequence of discourse and something that everybody might like to take a step back and consider! And while having a thick skin is something of a prerequisite for the job, so sometimes, is being humble. In saying all of that, robust debate, and challenge is an important aspect of the forum which I wouldn't want to see disappear. However, for the most part, this should be able to be achieved without the need to resort to bullying, abuse, arrogance or assuming a position of superiority.

Surely a good broad rule for everyone posting on this forum is not to write anything which you wouldn't say if you were talking face to face with others, especially if you don't know them well. Also, though it's understandable why some forum users prefer to use pseudonyms, they shouldn't use their pseudonyms as cover for making inappropriate remarks or comments. As this is a discussion forum, it's inevitable and part of the forum's attraction/benefit to users and readers that differing views get expressed. However, surely it's feasible for us to try to express contrary views without appearing abusive or arrogant, etc to others.

First, Brian, I agree with you and well done for bringing this to the table... I don't post here often but I do lurk and follow threads which I find interesting. I think there are a couple of issues that have not been mentioned yet, if they have sorry; First, some first posts are somewhat obscure, poorly thought through or just badly written..! Secondly, many threads go off topic really quickly because someone has not read the question properly or has read the question they would "prefer" to read..! (a bit like exams really) Me? I'm no where near perfect, but I learn't a long time ago with e mail, chat rooms and other electronica such as text messages to not fire off something straight away but to maybe sit back, think, write, look, delete then come back later, something i did in this case... But then I know I have a tendency to shoot from the lip and I know it doesn't work, Thanks, Jim

I will try to keep this post general and not to cross refer to the SWL thread too much, that provoked this thread. I see little problem in using words on this forum that are also in fairly common use in other public broadcast/print media. In this case a word that can mean ‘compulsive or obsessive behavior/excessive detailed knowledge’. If a word that is considered abusive is used in the 1st person directly to another poster to the forum that’s fair enough for moderation. The term was not used in this way. It was used as a generic point against non specific/identified individuals who have an interest in h&s, whereby excessive h&s action is taken without good cause or sufficient justification for an action. A point we see reported in the press far too often ‘elf and safety ban ….xxxx subject etc’ Sorry Mods, I think you come in for criticism here, I think the other thread has been excessively moderated for the use of the word I used. Other contributors also made the point that on this occasion they couldn’t identify abusive language. Indeed, making the point that far worse comments have been made to them in the real world. I can certainly agree with that, as I have experienced worse verbal comments many times over the years, seeing it as part of the rough and tumble of life as a h&s manager/adviser etc. As for the comment, would you say anything on this forum that you wouldn’t say face to face in the real world - I would have no problem with that. Turning now to the technical aspects of posting to this forum. If a thread has a large ‘technical’ content and you start off your response ‘I’m no expert but ….’, then you should expect to get taken to task if you quite clearly don’t have a fundamental grasp of the subject and are providing/suggesting poor advice. It should remain totally permissible on this forum to take someone to task, within the rules of the forum, for advice that goes against established and professionally accepted ways of resolving a problem. Especially in cases like the SWL thread where knowledge of materials/mechanical science and engineering was a pre-requisite to answer the question posed. On the specifics of the SWL problem, there was no personal abuse, simply direct querying of the advice and technical opinions being given by other contributors. It’s not about one up man-ship, it’s about giving the correct advice on a supposed ‘professional forum’ as we are constantly reminded. You should not be offended if you do give poor advice and are taken to task by more competent forum contributors - see it as a learning exercise! It’s not very professional to give incorrect/poor advice - especially if you admit to not knowing much about a subject! I note that nobody has made any contribution to the SWL thread that seriously queries the advice I gave about how to solve the SWL problem. Quite simply, if you don’t know the subject sufficiently well, don’t try to give advice. I see little point in posting a response along the lines ‘I don’t know the answer to xx problem, but I recommend you seek specialist advice etc etc’. This type of posting means nothing. I’m sure the originator of the post has already recognised that they need help, or otherwise they wouldn’t be posting/starting a thread in the first place to try and find an answer to their query. I also think this again drives home the fact that there is much more to employment/qualifications in the area of working in health and safety than simply obtaining NEBOSH qualifications (General or Diploma level) and associated CMIOSH letters after your name etc etc. Being CMISOH etc does not necessarily make you competent in all areas of safety. Isn’t part of professional development knowing what your limits are as well what your strengths are. There are loads of safety engineers in my area (oil/gas/nuclear design) who have never heard of IOSH/NEBOSH let alone have qualifications from these organisations. Are they qualified/competent? - of course they are. On a personal note: I completed the NEBOSH Diploma and achieved CMIOSH, but have dropped it, as it no longer serves a purpose in my own career. A suitable degree is much more important in an engineering design environment. However the h&s knowledge I obtained via the IOSH Diploma is in use on a regular basis. I may be perceived as blunt and direct by others on this forum, but abusive to others I reject completely. Regular contributors to this forum will no doubt have read posts from ‘Clairel’ (an ex HSE Inspector I believe) - I think I come from her ‘no nonsense’/pragmatic approach to h&s. In my area of safety it about making balanced and informed/rational safety decisions based on the current state of knowledge of science and engineering within the confines of h&s law. Ultimately aiming to reduce injuries, ill health and deaths to staff/engineers on industrial plant and the wider general public. Hopefully this is what all contributors to this forum are trying to achieve in their own areas of interest.

Personally, I feel that "taking to task" people for simply trying to be helpful to others on this forum is counter-productive. I think it is good when people are helpful - as long as they give some sort of indication about the reliability of their advice. If people can only feel safe from abuse to post something if they know it to be 100% correct, then it would probably lead to a sparse and dead forum. Being taken to task for trying to help feels a bit like giving someone a christmas present and then someone else saying "what a rubbish present" in front of the giver and receiver! It doesn't hurt to use tact and diplomacy - which I would personally regard as important traits of a good H&S professional.

I can understand what Brian is saying but I can only say for myself that I find the IOSH forums very good. I have never felt bullied or noticed anything I would term bullying of others ( although I accept this is very subjective ). I hope no one has ever felt bullied by my own comments. I have been corrected on some points I have made, said some stoopid things myself ( normally by accident or going for a cheap Friday laugh ) and got a lot of help from fellow posters. Perhaps we are getting worse by slow degrees and I'm not noticing? If so we need to put things right. I always try and keep in mind that people have different levels of knowledge, different backgrounds and different levels of control over the English language. It is very easy to post something that someone else takes in the wrong way. Good debate and I hope Brian re-considers and keeps posting things.

I see little problem in using words on this forum that are also in fairly common use in other public broadcast/print media - even more so if broadcast before the so called ‘9pm watershed’. If a word that is considered abusive is used in the 1st Person directly to another poster to the forum that’s fair enough for moderation. When words are used in the 3rd Person narrative language to describe an un-specific/unidentified individual, I don’t see a problem, as opposed to using the 1st Person narrative. However there will always be cases where people react in an overly sensitive manner. But that’s life. If a thread topic requires some degree of specialist knowledge and you indicate your own knowledge is limited, it is not then unreasonable to have your views questioned. It should remain totally permissible on this forum to ask probing questions about how/why certain conclusions and advice has been suggested, within the rules of the forum. Where advice is given/suggested that goes against established and professionally accepted ways of resolving a problem, it would seem reasonable to me to be told that is the case. See it as a learning exercise. It’s not very professional to give incorrect/poor advice - especially if you admit to not knowing much about a subject and then proceed to give advice. After all we are reminded very often that this is a ‘professional’ forum. Quite simply, if you don’t know the subject sufficiently well, don’t try to give advice. Being CMISOH/Diploma qualified etc does not necessarily make you competent in all areas of safety. Isn’t part of professional development knowing what your limits are as well what your strengths are? There are loads of safety engineers in my area (oil/gas/nuclear design) who have never heard of NEBOSH let alone have qualifications from the organisation. Are they qualified/competent? - of course they are because of other relevant qualifications. It is not one up-man-ship to explain/justify a better course of action, to someone less experienced or qualified. You could be preventing a safety mistake being made. In the nuclear industry it is actively encouraged that you question/query anything that you are not happy about. It’s part of the safety culture. With respect to postings in general. I see little point in posting a response along the lines ‘I don’t know the answer to xx problem, but I recommend you seek specialist advice etc’. This type of posting means nothing. I’m sure the originator of a post will have already recognised this and that they need help, or otherwise they wouldn’t be posting/starting a thread in the first place to try and find an answer to their query. Some readers on here may not like a blunt and direct response to questions and other posts on this forum, but that is a world away from being personally insulting.

To avoid conflict, would it not be better to present an opinion by posing it as a question (thereby inviting comment), rather than stating it as fact? I like robust debate, but there is a narrow line between informed and challenging debate, and trading personal insults. Maybe IOSH could run a training course to help us, and we could use the training to count towards our CPD? Apparently sarcasm isnt a good thing either.... Jez