Rank: Forum user 
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Having just visited a well known DIY store, I was horrified to hear the staff complaining bitterly that the management were now refusing to provide toilet rolls or soap on the grounds of cost.
I did try advising them that this was illegal but they were too frightened of losing their jobs if they complained.
I have to wonder, if a national chain store is behaving like this over such minor cost items what other (potentially more dangerous) corners are being cut in the current economic climate?
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Rank: Super forum user 
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"too frightened of losing their jobs" says it all and its going to get a lot worse!
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Rank: Super forum user
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I have to say, having been in this profession for two decades and now as a consultant (last two years) I’ve seen some recent issues that have concerned me.
After being asked to conduct a third party audit (18001) on a major hotel chain, no first-aiders were available due to the cost-cutting measures of halting refresher training?
Another, was heating within an engineering company (household name) who have commenced a policy of only having heating on in warehousing if senior management are present at one of their depots in the midlands?
I hope that these are isolated issues on what are basic entitlements, only time will tell…?
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Rank: Super forum user
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Is this Cameron's future?
Common sense application of sound Health, Safety and Welfare principles relying on a voluntary codes of practice and cutting out unnecessary inspections by enforcement authorities.
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Rank: Forum user
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Not sure in what capacity you visited Jeni, but were the staff aware that they could make an anonymous report to their local Environmental Health office? If I were to receive a complaint like that, then I would just turn up to do a general inspection, and not mention the complaint.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Hiya Jeni - it’s a worry that you have you have been informed of this but I work with many national retailers and I don’t know of any that would resort to these measures to save costs.
I'm not disputing it in anyway but it could be the result of comments made by local management or various reasons - whatever it can easily be addressed by various means - the retailer will have a confidential hotline or need be - call the LA - because if it if fact and they are up to this they'll get what they deserve.
If anyone brought such a ludicrous suggestion to my table such as removing these facilities to safe costs there would be hell on!
Freelance - worrying…………………..
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Rank: Forum user
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twinklemel - Just visiting to buy light bulbs.
DP - I am fairly certain that there would be nothing in in writing from head office about using these measures to save costs. It is probaby a case of the manager being told not to spend any money and taking it too far. But if there is that much pressure being put onto store managers to save money it does make me wonder what else is being cut?
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Rank: Super forum user
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May I just say that I wouldn't believe everything you hear from shopfloor workers. The rumour mills and conspiracy theories among the general workforce are amazing! Its mostly overheard and hearsay information with Chinese whispers thrown in for good measure!! I hear some amazing stuff sometimes!....Best I ever had was someone didn't come to work the following day due to something which happened outside of work, 4 hours later it had worked its way to the Regional H&S Manager, about 400 miles away asking me if we had a fatality on site!!.......
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Rank: Super forum user
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Just a thought: If the DIY store provides toilet & washing facilities for customers, I wonder if they are still provided with soap and loo paper. If so, it would be tempting for employees to use the same facilities if the information imparted to Jeni is true. Seriously, if the information is true, an alternative option to contacting the local environmental health dept would be to contact the company's OS&H adviser/s. If the situation has arisen through the local store manager going overboard in response to ahead office decree to save money, it's possible that some store managers elsewhere might be doing the same and also need appropriate advice.
p.s. Mr Flibble - are we allowed to add red herrings to the Chinese whispers or are such things best restricted to maritime matters?!! Also, though my memory might be going awry, weren't you at school with Wibble and others named in the teacher's roll call sketch starring Rowan Atkinson in a Monty Python sketch or show?!! :-)
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Rank: Forum user 
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Jeni D
It can get a lot worse.
These things do occur and having worked for the trade union movement for 22 years there are plenty of examples of worker abuse which have been verified, without bothering with any of Mr Flibble's rumours.
You may recall that over 40 construction companies were caught supporting and using an illegal blacklisting operation, which covered around 3,200 construction workers in 2009. The blacklist was run for construction company members by the notorious Consulting Association. Subscribing companies included several of the well known large construction companies.
Yesterday Carillion, Carillion (JM) Ltd and Schal International Ltd agreed a construction worker - Dave Smith – had been blacklisted because of Mr Smith's trade union activities and because he raised concerns about health & safety. The companies also admitted that their managers supplied information to the Consulting Association, which was prosecuted for operating the illegal blacklisting database.
Source: www.peoplemanagement.co....cial-was-blacklisted.htm
If this is how some big construction companies show their Respect for People one can only speculate as to how some of the smaller companies treat their workforce.
Apparently around 100 blacklisted construction workers are putting in claims for compensation at the High Court. 3,200 workers on an illegal blacklist – 100 claims for compensation: hardly evidence of a catastrophic ‘compensation culture’ - or indeed the ‘health and safety monster’ as the Prime Minister put it.
Of course it is unfair to single out the construction sector. Plenty of other employers abuse workers.
A report of an investigation into the meat and poultry sector by the Equality and Human Rights Commission stated the following:
‘We found evidence of widespread poor treatment of agency workers, particularly migrant and pregnant workers, both by agencies and in the meat processing factories. Some amount to breaches of the law and licensing standards – such as coercing workers to do double shifts when they are tired or ill. Others are a clear affront to respect and dignity.
This mistreatment not only blights the lives of individuals, but damages good relations in the workplace and communities. Yet much of it remains hidden. Sadly, many of these agency workers endure even physical and verbal abuse without complaint, fearful that complaining will wreck their chance of securing stable employment.’
Source: Inquiry into recruitment and employment in the meat and poultry processing sector: EHRC March 2010 - a copy of the report can be downloaded at:
www.equalityhumanrights..../meat_inquiry_report.pdf
Welcome to the 21st Century!
Cheers.
Nigel
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Rank: Super forum user 
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I support Graham's point. Why don't you call up the corporate H&S section of this national and tell them what you found? Practitioner to practitioner. That is probably the best you can do to ensure their current concerns are at least known to senior staff.
As to whether it can get any worse, yes it can and probably will. Exploitation is much easier during times of recession. People will take jobs that they might otherwise walk away from; knowledge that jobs are scarce increases the fear of losing the one you have and managers will be under greater pressure to survive on less business income.
However, such relatively insignificant non-compliance is nothing new. Human beings are fallible creatures as well as being capable of exploiting their fellow human beings.
Practically it has never been that easy to find any employer who is 100% compliant with 100% of their duties 100% of the time especially where there are many locations involved. Therefore, employees will inevitably be left without welfare or protection somewhere at some time. Doesn't make it right but it is a fact. Whether that is because there is a positive will to 'abuse' or whether it is a more passive omission that impacts employees is the debate that will rage as long as there are employers and employees. It will rage alongside the debate about the cost/benefit/impact of enforcement action.
Either way I am not condoning the conditions you report. Rather I am suggesting that fear of losing a job by going against the grain about anything and needing to keep costs to a minimum have been challenges for employees (which includes managers of course) since long before the bankers failed and exploited us all.
Sadly, the outcome from proving that a manager, or one more senior than you, has made an error of judgement has never been as positive as perhaps it should sometimes be. And that is true even in boom times.
p48
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Rank: Super forum user
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Not new I'm afraid (lack of heating)
A large tile warehouse in MK is now unheated. Workers have to grin and bare it. The offices are heated though.
Complain ?
"where are you working tomorrow" ?
"won't mention it was an anon complaint". Yes they will, and do.
Speaking about small companies....it is hard to find one that even cares, never mind complies, about health and safety....and that has always been the case.
Both the unions and HSE/LA have stacks of "horror" stories, but horror stories and tragedies don't cut costs and wages.
At the end of the day: Everyone dies sometime (which I HAVE been told by management) (another small company) (NLITRW)
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Rank: Forum user
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NigelB wrote:Jeni D
It can get a lot worse.
These things do occur and having worked for the trade union movement for 22 years there are plenty of examples of worker abuse which have been verified, without bothering with any of Mr Flibble's rumours.
You may recall that over 40 construction companies were caught supporting and using an illegal blacklisting operation, which covered around 3,200 construction workers in 2009. The blacklist was run for construction company members by the notorious Consulting Association. Subscribing companies included several of the well known large construction companies.
Yesterday Carillion, Carillion (JM) Ltd and Schal International Ltd agreed a construction worker - Dave Smith – had been blacklisted because of Mr Smith's trade union activities and because he raised concerns about health & safety. The companies also admitted that their managers supplied information to the Consulting Association, which was prosecuted for operating the illegal blacklisting database.
Source: www.peoplemanagement.co....cial-was-blacklisted.htm
If this is how some big construction companies show their Respect for People one can only speculate as to how some of the smaller companies treat their workforce.
Apparently around 100 blacklisted construction workers are putting in claims for compensation at the High Court. 3,200 workers on an illegal blacklist – 100 claims for compensation: hardly evidence of a catastrophic ‘compensation culture’ - or indeed the ‘health and safety monster’ as the Prime Minister put it.
Of course it is unfair to single out the construction sector. Plenty of other employers abuse workers.
A report of an investigation into the meat and poultry sector by the Equality and Human Rights Commission stated the following:
‘We found evidence of widespread poor treatment of agency workers, particularly migrant and pregnant workers, both by agencies and in the meat processing factories. Some amount to breaches of the law and licensing standards – such as coercing workers to do double shifts when they are tired or ill. Others are a clear affront to respect and dignity.
This mistreatment not only blights the lives of individuals, but damages good relations in the workplace and communities. Yet much of it remains hidden. Sadly, many of these agency workers endure even physical and verbal abuse without complaint, fearful that complaining will wreck their chance of securing stable employment.’
Source: Inquiry into recruitment and employment in the meat and poultry processing sector: EHRC March 2010 - a copy of the report can be downloaded at:
www.equalityhumanrights..../meat_inquiry_report.pdf
Welcome to the 21st Century!
Cheers.
Nigel
This is just Tory Britain, Back to victorian times. The pit would open again if the etonian could send children down on the cheap. Im in full agreement with you, respect in the workplace no longer exists
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Rank: Super forum user
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ptaylor14This is just Tory Britain, Back to victorian times. The pit would open again if the etonian could send children down on the cheap. Im in full agreement with you, respect in the workplace no longer exists[/quote wrote:
Strangely enough, it has little to do with individual party politics, more with politics in general. Most people seem to forget, that the majority of political decisions are based on a 5 year period, as the party (or parties) in question needs to think about re-election.
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