Welcome Guest! The IOSH forums are a free resource to both members and non-members. Login or register to use them

Postings made by forum users are personal opinions. IOSH is not responsible for the content or accuracy of any of the information contained in forum postings. Please carefully consider any advice you receive.

Notification

Icon
Error

Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
decimomal  
#1 Posted : 19 January 2012 10:01:05(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
decimomal

Section 5 of the Act states that any duty owed by virtue of this section in respect of a risk may, in an appropriate case, be discharged by "taking such steps as are reasonable in all the circumstances of the case to give warning of the danger concerned or to discourage persons from incurring the risk". Section 6 goes on to state that no duty is owed by virtue of this section to any person in respect of risks willingly accepted as his by that person (the question whether a risk was so accepted to be decided on the same principles as in other cases in which one person owes a duty of care to another). In practical terms, how far can an employer go in respect of erecting things like security fencing and other deterrents and keep within the requirements of the Act and assuming that things like razor wire and broken glass atop walls are a no no? The problem with signs of course, is that they may not be understood (even if pictographic).
NickH  
#2 Posted : 19 January 2012 11:55:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
NickH

Decimomal wrote:
In practical terms, how far can an employer go in respect of erecting things like security fencing and other deterrents and keep within the requirements of the Act and assuming that things like razor wire and broken glass atop walls are a no no? The problem with signs of course, is that they may not be understood (even if pictographic).
Coincidentally, whilst in London earlier this week and walking past one part of the Royal Brompton Hospital, I saw a sign stating "this wall is topped by jagged glass". Looking up, sure enough, it was. However, the wall was about 400 metres long and I saw only one 300mm square sign indicating the hazard.
rockybalboa  
#3 Posted : 19 January 2012 12:06:12(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
rockybalboa

I think Razor wire is ok to use if its high up and you literally have to climb on it to encounter it. And wasnt it an EU law that said the item being sold must be reproducable to a specification for it to be able to be used (CE marked etc) which is why razor wire is ok to be used/sold as it is uniform in design whereas broken glass is not so it cant be used.
Ron Hunter  
#4 Posted : 19 January 2012 12:37:18(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Your Insurers and the local Police liaison can offer best advice regarding practical and legal measures. Essentially, we aren't allowed to install booby traps. Glass-topped walls are a no-no in that respect. Personally, I wouldn't use razor wire other than in war zone - very nasty stuff and there are alternatives available (e.g. shark-tooth or plain rollers). Section 6 I believe accords with volenti non-fit injuria, but there are compexities surrounding that, particulary where there is conflict between man-made and natural features.
offaman  
#5 Posted : 19 January 2012 13:00:33(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
offaman

I would start by looking at BRB vs Herrington which was one of the drivers for the legislation. The act talks about reasonable care and so that indicates an assesent to determine who's likely to be at risk from any proposed deterrants. However the advice of a good security expert will be invaluable as there are lots of techniques and products for keeping property safe without advertising to a would be criminal that there might be something worth stealing in the first place.
phargreaves04  
#6 Posted : 19 January 2012 13:10:35(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
phargreaves04

Section 1 (3) of the act lays down some statutory criteria of foreseeability by which to determine what can be reasonablly be expected of the occupier. To claim for any damages an injured tespasser would have to prove on the balance of probabilities that the ocupier knew of the danger, that the occupier knew or had reasonable grounds to believe that an uninvited entrant might come into the vicinity, and the risk was one which the occupier could reasonably have expected to offer the trespasser some protection. So a simple warning sign may suffice for an adult.
decimomal  
#7 Posted : 19 January 2012 14:42:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
decimomal

Thank you for the replies. I have been doing some research and believe that using proprietry anti intruder fencing would fit the bill so long as there is adequate signage. The other option is lots of prickly bushes around the perimeter!!
Dimond36742  
#8 Posted : 20 January 2012 08:23:30(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Dimond36742

Interesting one this. We have had a number of incidents of trespass with malicious damage done in the past by campaigners and our answer has been (after large amounts of discussions with relevant authorities) anti intruder fencing topped with electrified wiring. As long as there is sufficient information about the hazards and the occupier has the means to carry out such repairs as may be needed you should be ok.
Users browsing this topic
Guest
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.