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Frank E  
#1 Posted : 25 January 2012 23:42:14(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Frank E

I'm looking for a risk assessment form to document the assessment of contents of first response kits. I keep a holdall kit in the car (but my car is SORNed just now), mobile kits in each of my bags and backpacks for when I'm out and about on foot and when I work I take in my own slightly larger mobile kit populated according to hazards, risks and potential injuries involved. I know what to put in them, in fact they are all well-populated for a wide range of injuries in different sectors but I'm not sure how to set out the risk assessment / due diligence form(s). HSE L76 doesn't suggest a risk assessment form. What fields do I put on the self assessment? I'm also looking for Sealed sterile pairs of nitrile non-powdered gloves. ATEX pupillary reflex flashlight (penlight) I have boxes of nitrile examination gloves but they are not really any use in the mobile kits. The company Regent that supplied my sealed sterile co-polymer gloves before seem to be out of business and the stock I have is nearing expiry. I have ATEX flashlights but they are too bright, pupillary reflex pens but none are ATEX or IS. What's this I've heard that dressings scissors and tape can't be stocked in first aid kits (even those without public / numpty access) unless they are in a room for the purpose of administering first aid?
stevedm  
#2 Posted : 26 January 2012 07:26:11(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

Frank You won't find an ATEX penlight for pupil response. I have an ATEX headtorch for working on confined space rescues/mountain/remote.... Just need to know what level you are pitching this at? FAW? FAW+FPOS? EMT? Paramedic? Remote Medic? Do you mean L77 Adventure activities?
teh_boy  
#3 Posted : 26 January 2012 09:14:11(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
teh_boy

Frank E wrote:
I have boxes of nitrile examination gloves but they are not really any use in the mobile kits. The company Regent that supplied my sealed sterile co-polymer gloves before seem to be out of business and the stock I have is nearing expiry.
Sorry for really quick reply - busy busy busy, but.... I am also confused as to what level this is aimed at. Why not just use the same kit that NHS first responders would use? Is this for a chemical plant? If working in ex areas is it possible to use a gas monitor and then use any torch? As for gloves - these should be easy to find - SJA supplies have then for one, in St John there is a push for all mobile first aider (not ambulance based) to use sterile sealed gloves.
teh_boy  
#4 Posted : 26 January 2012 09:17:30(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
teh_boy

p.s. On Chemical plant - I used COMAH MAP scenarios and then listed any specific kit next to it in a simple spread sheet, - e.g. Oxygen therapy for cyanide exposure. Gas monitor to sit with defib - in case of use in ex zone
Irwin43241  
#5 Posted : 26 January 2012 09:56:24(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Guest

Why would you want a 'risk assessment form' to document the assessment of contents of first response kits? In my opinion, a further example of 'risk assessment' used in completely the wrong context.
teh_boy  
#6 Posted : 26 January 2012 11:45:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
teh_boy

Irwin43241 wrote:
Why would you want a 'risk assessment form' to document the assessment of contents of first response kits? In my opinion, a further example of 'risk assessment' used in completely the wrong context.
As I said I have done this kind of assessment - I needed to justify expenditure for oxygen therapy, defib and all associated training / maintenance to board :( It's not always just about H&S.
HeO2  
#7 Posted : 26 January 2012 12:07:34(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
HeO2

Hi Frank, If it is for work within a hot zone I think i would leave things on the D side of the CABCDE scale until I had evacuated them to a place of safety. Worry about a really quick quick CABC, then get them out to a place were you can do something about the observations you are making. If they are trapped within the hot zone, then a PEARL assesment isn't going to change your treatment given anyway. Phil
stevedm  
#8 Posted : 26 January 2012 12:23:49(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

teh At the risk of hijacking the thread...have you a DSEAR RA for the use of Defib in hazardous areas? Wouldn't mind a copy if you have...save me a job... I think we need to wait for Frank to come back.... The Risk assessment would the first aid RA for the site ? Frank? The requirements and training should be held within that surely?
HeO2  
#9 Posted : 26 January 2012 12:55:21(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
HeO2

Hijack thread alert here!!! Still can't get any one to approve use of a defib in a decompression chamber, so good luck with an Ex area!! Phil
teh_boy  
#10 Posted : 26 January 2012 13:36:39(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
teh_boy

stevedm wrote:
teh At the risk of hijacking the thread...have you a DSEAR RA for the use of Defib in hazardous areas? Wouldn't mind a copy if you have...save me a job... I think we need to wait for Frank to come back.... The Risk assessment would the first aid RA for the site ? Frank? The requirements and training should be held within that surely?
I don't have it any more :( (I'll have a check for you later tho) We did lots of calcs but the basic advice was - Basis of safety was gas meter stored with defib. If gas present then evac casualty. (this was a challenge as it was long walk (carry) over uneven terrain and the procedure suggested CPR the whole time - this was drilled and was a disaster! Manufacture provided us with all potential ignition energy scenarios and a bit of maths to confirm and jobs a goodun :) (ex defibs don't exist :) ) What one earth is a CABCDE - I am guessing it is an advanced twist on DRABCD? We are not medical professionals - I will check with the trouble and strife later. Also what is a hot zone? Do you mean a zoned area - or an area that is hot? Ah the joys of acronyms. I agree - not really sure what difference checking pupils is going to have to most first aiders? Not even taught much now... If in doubt get them out . (Before anyone says, i know why I do it... but not sure what it changes in most situations) What I would add - The ambulance service and fire brigade expected us to evacuate a casualty from our zoned areas! They would only treat in a place of 'relative' safety.
teh_boy  
#11 Posted : 26 January 2012 13:39:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
teh_boy

:) Just noticed I did it too...DOH
HeO2  
#12 Posted : 26 January 2012 15:10:36(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
HeO2

Sorry, "Hot zone" is classed as anywhere that your standard Para, Policeman, or Firefighter shouldn't be without specialist PPE. Be it because of water, chemical, fire, terrorist, axe wielding assassin, whatever. CABCDE is the way that advanced casualty carers are taught. C = Catastrophic haemorrhage A = Airway with C spine B = Breathing C = Circulation D = Disability E = Expose and examine Sorry to highjack thread in answering this!!
MB1  
#13 Posted : 26 January 2012 15:19:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
MB1

HeO2 wrote:
Hijack thread alert here!!! Still can't get any one to approve use of a defib in a decompression chamber, so good luck with an Ex area!! Phil
I guess they now pipe through 'staying alive' instead!
HeO2  
#14 Posted : 26 January 2012 15:35:28(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
HeO2

they do!!!! it fits in quite well, as all bubbleheads I know wear a medallion to press on LOL
stevedm  
#15 Posted : 26 January 2012 15:59:08(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

Just be careful we are mixing FAW requirements with ALS (Advanced Life Support) although I'm sure we could argue differently... Which brings us back to the thread...I hope... Just need to find the level this is aimed at....Hello Frank...are you with us...?
HeO2  
#16 Posted : 26 January 2012 16:04:01(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
HeO2

I know Steve, its just that with the original post mentioning checking peepers with a torch I though they were alluding to a higher than FAW training level. But your quite right. Sorry.
Ken Slack  
#17 Posted : 26 January 2012 16:04:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ken Slack

Sounds like Franks not looking for advice on what equipment to carry in what zone, as he says, he knows what goes in it........ Rather it sounds like he's looking for a RA template to document it......... Unless he's looking for a RA for documenting his assessment............ Confused.com :c)
teh_boy  
#18 Posted : 26 January 2012 16:09:11(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
teh_boy

HeO2 wrote:
Sorry, "Hot zone" is classed as anywhere that your standard Para, Policeman, or Firefighter shouldn't be without specialist PPE. Be it because of water, chemical, fire, terrorist, axe wielding assassin, whatever. CABCDE is the way that advanced casualty carers are taught. C = Catastrophic haemorrhage A = Airway with C spine B = Breathing C = Circulation D = Disability E = Expose and examine Sorry to highjack thread in answering this!!
Thanks - My advanced first aid is rusty at best - I thought I knew the C - but wasn't sure! Thanks for clarifying. As for decompression chamber - I assume elevated O2 levels are the hazard? It must be possible to calculate the ignition risk? I wish I had time... interesting project :) Right - back to answering the question - I have learnt stuff anyway (will throw that one in on my next defib course as a time not to use a defib... the 7th P :)
teh_boy  
#19 Posted : 26 January 2012 16:11:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
teh_boy

Ken Slack wrote:
Sounds like Franks not looking for advice on what equipment to carry in what zone, as he says, he knows what goes in it........ Rather it sounds like he's looking for a RA template to document it......... Unless he's looking for a RA for documenting his assessment............ Confused.com :c)
I answered that - two columns in a spread sheet - Scenario in one - first aid kit required in the next... simples.
HeO2  
#20 Posted : 26 January 2012 16:22:24(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
HeO2

yes Teh, They don't seem to want to commit to causing sparks inside a giant oxygen cylinder (no sense of adventure some people!) We always do our best to keep it below 23% as per diving grown ups rules, but they still recommend bringing the chamber back "to surface" and ambient pressure before using a defib. Oh well Bee Gees it is then!!
Frank E  
#21 Posted : 26 January 2012 17:11:40(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Frank E

Thanks all, sorry had to go out. The RA is for the record, , as a formal double check and to review contents as needs change and new products come on the market. I threw out the proverbial fag packets and envelopes. teh boy, yes an element of justification, traceable to work to get expenses. Irwin I'm not that knowlegeable about the compliance paperwork, the ins and outs of the regs and all that bureacracy. The flashlight is not entirely for first response / first aid, I'm a bit of a flashaholic I always have a flashlight on me and it would be handier if I didn't have to give up my pocket P-R light or team out my pocket kit at security on sites with potentially explosive atmospheres or my pocket light at the heliport. I never get them back.
stevedm  
#22 Posted : 01 February 2012 17:02:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

Frank E wrote:
I'm looking for a risk assessment form to document the assessment of contents of first response kits. I keep a holdall kit in the car (but my car is SORNed just now), mobile kits in each of my bags and backpacks for when I'm out and about on foot and when I work I take in my own slightly larger mobile kit populated according to hazards, risks and potential injuries involved. I know what to put in them, in fact they are all well-populated for a wide range of injuries in different sectors but I'm not sure how to set out the risk assessment / due diligence form(s). HSE L76 doesn't suggest a risk assessment form. What fields do I put on the self assessment? I'm also looking for Sealed sterile pairs of nitrile non-powdered gloves. ATEX pupillary reflex flashlight (penlight) I have boxes of nitrile examination gloves but they are not really any use in the mobile kits. The company Regent that supplied my sealed sterile co-polymer gloves before seem to be out of business and the stock I have is nearing expiry. I have ATEX flashlights but they are too bright, pupillary reflex pens but none are ATEX or IS. What's this I've heard that dressings scissors and tape can't be stocked in first aid kits (even those without public / numpty access) unless they are in a room for the purpose of administering first aid?
Frank - would still be helpful if we know what level you are pitching your kit at as that will depend on what you have...
Frank E  
#23 Posted : 01 February 2012 18:01:19(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Frank E

teh_boy wrote:
Ken Slack wrote:
Sounds like Franks not looking for advice on what equipment to carry in what zone, as he says, he knows what goes in it........ Rather it sounds like he's looking for a RA template to document it......... Unless he's looking for a RA for documenting his assessment............ Confused.com :c)
I answered that - two columns in a spread sheet - Scenario in one - first aid kit required in the next... simples.
That'll do nicely.
Frank E  
#24 Posted : 01 February 2012 18:03:28(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Frank E

teh_boy wrote:
Frank E wrote:
I have boxes of nitrile examination gloves but they are not really any use in the mobile kits. The company Regent that supplied my sealed sterile co-polymer gloves before seem to be out of business and the stock I have is nearing expiry.
Sorry for really quick reply - busy busy busy, but.... I am also confused as to what level this is aimed at. Why not just use the same kit that NHS first responders would use? Is this for a chemical plant? If working in ex areas is it possible to use a gas monitor and then use any torch? As for gloves - these should be easy to find - SJA supplies have then for one, in St John there is a push for all mobile first aider (not ambulance based) to use sterile sealed gloves.
Excellent, thanks, cheaper than the suppliers I looked at.
stevedm  
#25 Posted : 02 February 2012 07:07:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

Just be careful not to stock your first aid kit with kit you are not trained to use...having recently reviewed a clients First aider who had intubation set!... Do not be tempted to use anything other than a diagnostic penlight for examining eyes as this could cause more damage.. there are stanard risk assessment forms to allow such kits in ATEX/DSEAR Zones..if you need a copy drop me a note..
HeO2  
#26 Posted : 02 February 2012 08:56:26(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
HeO2

Steve this seems to be a growing problem, as I've had this issue recently whilst auditing first aid equipment. I've come across all kinds of kit in there like stethoscopes, nasopharyngeal airways, cannulae and as you found ET tubes. Alla bit worrying eh? Phil
stevedm  
#27 Posted : 02 February 2012 16:55:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

Not trying to put anyone down for trying to help...but some of the kit I have come across in first aiders and first responders some doctors don't even carry!....
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