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suemonk  
#1 Posted : 06 February 2012 15:04:13(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
suemonk

Are are there safety concerns relating to snow plough attachments? The equipment is strong and fixes in location. The ground to clear is flat and the snow is soft. Advice gratefully accepted.
Jake  
#2 Posted : 06 February 2012 20:01:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Jake

A few points we considered:

- Fit snow chains to the forklift, they slide around a lot without
- Are there any curbs other minor obstructions that may be covered by snow in the area(s) to be cleared? You don't want the snow plough "catching" anything that could throw the forklift off balance. We used google maps and made a site plan showin operatives where they could and couldn't drive. In addition specific obstructions were highlighted by coloured snow poles in advance (e.g. reversing guides etc.)
- Make sure the forklift is externally rated
- Ensure that forklift has sufficient lighting to illuminate the path ahead
- PPE for the operative (we spec our freezer gear)
- Conduct plough when no other vehicles are in the area (or off peak times if you cannot eliminate)

All the general forklift management controls required of course. Consider getting a towable salt spreader if you haven't already!
horner.d  
#3 Posted : 09 February 2012 13:17:46(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
horner.d

On the odd occasions I visit the IOSH Discussion Forum I really do try very hard not to get drawn in. But with over 30 years experience within the Mechanical Handling sector I feel bound to comment as follows. It’s simple, as the name suggests a Forklift Truck is a lifting device. A Snow Plough on the other hand is designed for pushing snow out of the way. The lift mast and carriage of a forklift truck are not designed to take the forces that would be applied, whilst ploughing snow out of the way. Rule of thumb if the operating instructions don’t state it can be done, don’t do it. Refer also - Flt Approved Code of Practice and Guidance HSE BOOKS ISBN 0 7176 2455 2, LOLER Reg 9.3 and Part 2 of PUWER just about all of it applies. Of course the truck will slide around a lot its not designed for use on snow let alone as a snow plough. As for fitting snow chains to solid, semi solid, or industrial pneumatic tyres!!! Finally applying general forklift truck management controls will rule out the use of a snow plough attachment.
Safety Smurf  
#4 Posted : 09 February 2012 13:49:21(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Safety Smurf

for most, a forklift truck is also a major investment so I can understand why people might want to use it.

The question that is then left to be answered is;

"how is it snowplough attachments for forklifts are manufactured, appproved and sold through reputable companies if they're not to be fitted to forklifts?
jay  
#5 Posted : 09 February 2012 14:39:03(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jay

We use FLTs' with snowplough and scoop attachments. It is effective and safer compared to using manual power and showelling the snow--the critical factor is knowing the limitations of the FLT you have!

It is not practicable for us to invest in tractors etc.
Jake  
#6 Posted : 09 February 2012 15:14:49(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Jake

horner.d wrote:
On the odd occasions I visit the IOSH Discussion Forum I really do try very hard not to get drawn in. But with over 30 years experience within the Mechanical Handling sector I feel bound to comment as follows. It’s simple, as the name suggests a Forklift Truck is a lifting device. A Snow Plough on the other hand is designed for pushing snow out of the way. The lift mast and carriage of a forklift truck are not designed to take the forces that would be applied, whilst ploughing snow out of the way. Rule of thumb if the operating instructions don’t state it can be done, don’t do it. Refer also - Flt Approved Code of Practice and Guidance HSE BOOKS ISBN 0 7176 2455 2, LOLER Reg 9.3 and Part 2 of PUWER just about all of it applies. Of course the truck will slide around a lot its not designed for use on snow let alone as a snow plough. As for fitting snow chains to solid, semi solid, or industrial pneumatic tyres!!! Finally applying general forklift truck management controls will rule out the use of a snow plough attachment.


I wasn't aware we were contravening legislation in allowing FLTs to be fitted with snow ploughs, could you provide a specific reference?

Surely it's a judgement call on suitability of the equipment etc. rather than a specific ban on using a snow plough attachement (irrespective of whether or not it's use is deemed good practice)?

Ours have been used, in line with our safety management system, without issue. FLTs and attachments have been statutory inspected without bother or comment from the competent engineer.

I stand to be corrected, always learning as they say.

horner.d  
#7 Posted : 09 February 2012 16:09:58(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
horner.d

Safety Smurf wrote:
for most, a forklift truck is also a major investment so I can understand why people might want to use it.

The question that is then left to be answered is;

"how is it snowplough attachments for forklifts are manufactured, appproved and sold through reputable companies if they're not to be fitted to forklifts?


Check CE Certifiction - I'm not getting drawn in any futher if you want me to explain the details contact the Moderator for my email address.
pseudonym  
#8 Posted : 09 February 2012 16:27:40(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
pseudonym

Cant help wonder if snow ploughs cant be fitted to FLTs how can they be fitted to lorries by local authority / Highways Agency!
Jim Tassell  
#9 Posted : 09 February 2012 16:43:38(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Jim Tassell

I suggest that a properly designed snow plough accessory is preferable to the pile of loose pallets on the forks that I've seen used more than once.

The chance of being prosecuted for a CE marking offence per se is zip; go look at the statistics.

The key to this is that a proper system (of course risk assessment based) is put in place as others describe. Don't leave it until it snows then hope that your FLT driver can magic the stuff away. Precautions against hitting kerbs etc. are vital as they are a sure fire way of tipping a truck (I have dealt with two fatalities from that cause).

Think balance of risk. Properly organised, is the FLT snow plough less risky than the alternatives, which includes doing nothing? I would say yes.
Safety Smurf  
#10 Posted : 09 February 2012 16:57:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Safety Smurf

horner.d wrote:
Safety Smurf wrote:
for most, a forklift truck is also a major investment so I can understand why people might want to use it.

The question that is then left to be answered is;

"how is it snowplough attachments for forklifts are manufactured, appproved and sold through reputable companies if they're not to be fitted to forklifts?


Check CE Certifiction - I'm not getting drawn in any futher if you want me to explain the details contact the Moderator for my email address.


I would prefer to carry the courage of my convictions and make my comments on the public forum. Unless of course it's a secret or a conspiracy! ;-)
Mr.Flibble  
#11 Posted : 09 February 2012 17:49:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Mr.Flibble

From the ones I have seen in use they are all CE Marked, sooooo not sure about that comment because if it has a genuine CE Mark surely it means its suitable.....
horner.d  
#12 Posted : 09 February 2012 19:01:09(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
horner.d

Safety Smurf wrote:
horner.d wrote:
Safety Smurf wrote:
for most, a forklift truck is also a major investment so I can understand why people might want to use it.

The question that is then left to be answered is;

"how is it snowplough attachments for forklifts are manufactured, appproved and sold through reputable companies if they're not to be fitted to forklifts?


Check CE Certifiction - I'm not getting drawn in any futher if you want me to explain the details contact the Moderator for my email address.


I would prefer to carry the courage of my convictions and make my comments on the public forum. Unless of course it's a secret or a conspiracy! ;-)


Courage of my convictions eh Smurfy – Surely as a qualified professional you should know where to find the answers I given enough clews. Why are you being so objectionable? I've got far better things to do than waste my time playing games with the likes of you.

horner.d  
#13 Posted : 09 February 2012 19:28:45(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
horner.d

pseudonym wrote:
Cant help wonder if snow ploughs cant be fitted to FLTs how can they be fitted to lorries by local authority / Highways Agency!


Pseudonym, is that Mr or Mrs, are you being serious - I’m certainly not going to talk you through HGV chassis dynamics and what makes you believe that local authorities and the Highway Agency are standard setters. Quite frankly I’m stunned by the naivety that has been displayed following my well meant comments.
alistair.r.reid  
#14 Posted : 09 February 2012 20:40:23(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
alistair.r.reid

Mr Flibble

Can't see how CE marked and suitable are related.

The suitability of the attachment lies with the truck mnufacturer, the CE mark of the attachment lies with the attachment manufacturer.

Same as any other FT attachment but applying the ethos of PM28 - written confirmation should be sought from the manufacturer or supplier of the truck as to the suitability of any attachment to be used with the truck.
pseudonym  
#15 Posted : 10 February 2012 08:19:22(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
pseudonym

Horner.d - does it mattter Pseudonym is what pseudonym says it is - my name is not a common one and I prefer to use a "pseudonym" - tke it up with the mods if you find it objectionable ...

I may be naive, I may be wrong, I may be misguided and even foolish .. .. but the fact remains, as other posters have posted, that there are an awful lot of attachements to vehicle of all sorts - many subject to various statutory inspection regimes - by competant inspectors, insurance companies and manufacturers of the equipment.

Agree primary function of FLT is to "lift" but they also move (depending on rating of FLT) very heavy objects - pushing a few cm of snow off a car park shouldn't be problem - much more than that and the Highways Agency gritter / ploughs (sorry about the attachments) wouldn't have cleared the roads so no one would get into work to drive the FLTs

Any way - no snow where I am so purely academic question - have a nice day, and if your lucky enough to have snow go play snowballs - H&S is sooooo boring
kdrum  
#16 Posted : 10 February 2012 09:13:14(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
kdrum

As some other posters had already said, if the FLT plough attachment is properly designed and fitted to do the job, what is the problem. We are a College and have a FLT for our construction dept, we can not afford to purchase another vehicle to clear snow so have an attachment for the FLT. It was purchased from a reputable supplier, came with all appropriate paperwork, was fitted as per instruction by a competent engineer and users have received training.

We have only had a couple of mornings where we were required to clear snow but on those occassions it has proved invaluable enabling us to clear paths etc in a fraction of the time it took in previous years using shovels and manpower. This has also reduced the need for manual handling so reducing the risk to staff.

I too would be interested to know which specific piece of legislation horner suggests I am not complying with
stevedm  
#17 Posted : 10 February 2012 09:34:00(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

Putting my head above the parapet....(Bullet proof jacket and kevlar hat on...)

There are 2 points here what the FLT was designed to do...lifting and what due to time, trouble and cost we want it to do...

Horner is quite correct they are not designed for moving snow..

However with the risks related to not clearing snow we look for a reasonable alternative..which is a business decision based on the risk and cost...

Isn't it what we bang on about every day...?
teh_boy  
#18 Posted : 10 February 2012 10:00:05(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
teh_boy

I'm confused

You can buy the attachments from a range of sources,
I agree that the truck is designed for lifting and not pushing in snowy conditions,
I also agree surely this is a risk based decision.

If the manufacture and insurer think it's safe (I questioned both of these parties on a previous site where this was done and they said it was OK with a proper attachment?) and a risk assessment completed (in line with the reg's quoted by the lifting expert) then....

Do we need some clear guidance from the HSE on this maybe, this is becoming more and more common with our cold winters and all we are getting is strong opinion but no solid fact based answer???
pseudonym  
#19 Posted : 10 February 2012 13:07:44(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
pseudonym

Perhap one of our enlightened and expert colleagues could elaborate on what vehicles can actually be used as snow ploughs - something designed primarily to push loads?
Any ideas anyone?
Safety Smurf  
#20 Posted : 10 February 2012 13:40:00(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Safety Smurf

Telehandler
David H  
#21 Posted : 10 February 2012 13:58:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
David H

From this source - http://www.hse.gov.uk/lau/lacs/90-4.htm#para24

"Excluded lifting equipment
24 LOLER should not be applied to the range of tools and apparatus which perform only a limited lifting function, such as a tractor 3-point linkage which raises an attachment, eg a plough, in order to clear the ground. This example is included as a specific paragraph of ACoP L113 (para 31)"

So if you fit the attachment LOLER does not apply to the attachment but PUWER would.


JayJay  
#22 Posted : 13 February 2012 13:22:34(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
JayJay

A question i would also ask is, has the operator of the FLT been trained to use the attachment ? Dont forget that when a FLT operator undertakes training he would only have used standard forks. If in doubt please check out HSG6 which talks about the use of attachments and the requirements

JayJay
Warhammer  
#23 Posted : 13 February 2012 16:46:09(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Warhammer

I agree, this is a risk based decision. I would prefer to have a slighly slidy F/lift than dozens of employees walking on unsuitable ground. Lets get back to common sense decisions. The regulations should support work related activities. We need to focus on "How can we do this safely" not on who says we can't do it.
andy145  
#24 Posted : 13 February 2012 18:35:39(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
andy145

Just a quick comment regarding snow ploughs, i both agree and disagree with some comments, dont want to say which ones!! Flt is a very generic terms and i would be worried if someone were thinking of attaching a snow plough on to a reach truck. I have been a flt instructor for approx 15 years now and have worked for a major manufacturer of these machines. We have a snow plough that we fit to one of flts in the training centre. As long as a few basics have been put into place you should be fine, but as with everything risk assess first, speak to the flt manufacturer to ascertain if the flt can be used with that attachment, the flt and attachment must be compatable, the operative must be trained, it must be in a good condition, check the appropriate swl. And if in doubt stop ...... have not heard of anyone fitting snow chains to a flt but again speak to the manufacturer before commencing anything. As always the best piece of equipment for the job is the piece that is specifically designed for that job, but as usual we all have to worry about money these days. Hope this helps.
GVellam  
#25 Posted : 13 February 2012 20:13:04(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
GVellam

I have worked at a logistics company for many years and seen all methods of snow management, but the key to using forklifts with snow ploughs is to use them before it become any sort of depth. We were fortunate to have a heavy forklift for yard duties, so the key to good snow management is manage it as it falls. We never ever had problems that have been suggested.
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