Hi there, I have just been placed in a new position and would like some advice. I have just asked a contractor (to replace signage on our warehouse at a height of ca 20 ft) for his Risk Assessments and Work Methods and for the first time the contractor has then been very obstinate, stating that I don't need them, that he has never been asked for this and that he is insured for working at height and has 'done bigger jobs than this' ! Obviously I was very unhappy with this and had decided to cancel the job not convinced in his ability to carry out the job safely. I have since been wondering about my further responsibility as a H&S professional. If I heard on the news in a months time that one of his employees had been killed working at height, I would feel awful, knowing that I was suspicious of his practices. Are there any legal obligations on me to report this to the HSE - I have no evidence of bad practices going on, other than feelign the contractor really doesn't understand his H&S and Legal Obligations ! Any advice would be greatly appreciated, either in theory or from practical experience of this situation. Many Thanks, Adrian

see post on two plumbers. Was he actually working unsafely or was it just a disagreement between the two of you over RAMS?

Adrian - good advice there from Ray. Hope it helps.

Almost all contractors we use expect to be asked for and are quite happy to provide RAMS for their work - If the contractor is not willing to meet your request, this says a lot about the man in charge and I would definitely be wary. That said, there are times when you do need to sit down and work out the MS in some detail with contractors - but as stated, the RAMS have to be produced by the contractor and meet with your approval.

Thanks everyone, Very helpful advice all round ! Along the lines I was thinking, but this is the first time a contractor has refused to provide and took exception to being asked for this information - and it totally threw me a curve ball ! As you say, I don't know of any poor working practices on the contractors part, so yes, leave it be.

Adrian, I think you owe it to your own colleagues and the contractor’s employees to ensure competent people will be working safely within your workplace, no one wants a work related injury. As there is no proof the contractor in question is incompetent or will work unsafely reporting to HSE may be a bit extreme. However I am surprised to hear any contractor was allowed enter your workplace to work at height without firstly submitting (1) A site specific Risk Assessment (taking note of any hazards which may be present and would have been advised by your H & S team and how to reduce risk to those coming on site) (2) A Method Statement – written by the contractor (3) Proof of training, for any WAH (giving names of those who will be working on site, if personnel are to change during project this must be reflected in the document) (4) Proof of insurance – indemnity We control contractors on our site by only allowing them access after reviewing their submission of above documents, which they must send to us 5 days prior to proposed start date. When satisfied with their MS, competency etc we issue them with our Permit To Work. You may need to check if there is hot work involved in the project and if so that will also need a Hot Work Permit, which should only be issued after you have checked the tools and equipment to be used and they are in good condition, PAT etc where required, and the fire fighting equipment has been inspected within the last year Good Luck Marion

This is entirely dependent on who 'owns' the risk Ray. In certain circumstances the occupying employer's activity form the greater part of the risk. The visiting contractor essentially works to the local rules. A contractor's MS would be a meaningless reiteration of those local rules, a waste of paper and everyone else's time. Those who create risk are responsible for that risk, etc. Ina great many instances, I'd place more store on an agreement for mutual safety reached at a site pre-start meeting, rather than a neatly filed MS that no-one ever reads. MS has its place, but is not the universal panacea many would have us believe.

I have often found that contractors can articulate a perfectly safe system of work in the course of discussion, yet will fail miserably when faced with writing it all down in comprehensible form. We hire contractors on the basis of competency and resources and ability to do the job, not for mastery of the written word. I suggest that this insistence on Method Statements is over-used by many commissioning clients, & often for the most routine and mundane of tasks. Erecting a few signs (albeit at high level) might well fall in either camp. The original poster gave the impression of starting out in the H&S field. I wouldn't want him to carry on thinking MS are an absolute requirement when they are not.

Also get your procurers involved as well as those who sanctioned the contractor to work in the first place as such things should be dealt with at that stage/the very early stages