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AdrianW  
#1 Posted : 17 February 2012 16:04:22(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
AdrianW

I looked over the previous discussion topics and did not see if this has been discussed - my apologies if it has. A court in Italy has sentenced two men to 16 year prison terms for contravening workplace safety regulations - 1976 to 1986 - as well as being ordered to pay 80 million Euro's in damages to about 6000 people. http://www.shponline.co....appeal-16-year-jail-term ... "To coincide with the court verdict, a consortium of civil-interest groups has published an English-language book about the case. Eternit and the Great Asbestos Trial is available online on the International Ban Asbestos Secretariat website" ...
firestar967  
#2 Posted : 18 February 2012 16:29:17(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
firestar967

When you think about how the asbestos was mined and processed there are many more who should be brought to justice for the harm that has been caused in my opinion. Asbestos has been mined all over the world, imported and exported and still is unfortunately. Some still with very little protection in some countries exposing the workforce to the fibres.
Ron Hunter  
#3 Posted : 20 February 2012 13:46:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Worthy of note I think that one of the principle defendants in what is described in related reports as a "massacre" is elsewhere described as: "Art collector, philanthropist, and the driving force in many networks to promote a new green capitalism......... a leading light of an employers' association – the World Business Council for Sustainable Development." Even Damsacean Conversion doesn't usually stretch that far! 'Green capitalism' brought into disrepute?
tabs  
#4 Posted : 20 February 2012 13:49:16(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
tabs

According to a public information film playing in the background of Upstairs Downstairs last night (keep you criticism of my veiwing choices to yourselves, please) the government-issued gas masks contained blue asbestos. Never knew that ...
walker  
#5 Posted : 20 February 2012 14:23:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
walker

tabs wrote:
According to a public information film playing in the background of Upstairs Downstairs last night (keep you criticism of my veiwing choices to yourselves, please) the government-issued gas masks contained blue asbestos. Never knew that ...
Not far North of me is "Boots the Chemists" their factory was turned over to making gas mask filters as part of the war effort. The very high death toll amongst the (mostly female) packers was used as evidence against the continued use of asbestos.
Graham Bullough  
#6 Posted : 21 February 2012 14:42:51(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Graham Bullough

Just to expand on walker's information below, it's almost certain that the manufacture of the cartridges for gas masks for WW2 in the UK resulted in many deaths from asbestos disease, notably mesothelioma. I recall this topic (the "Nottingham Housewives" case) being covered during training for HSE inspectors in the latter part of the 1970s, but don't know if it is still used and publicised by HSE and/or any others such as IOSH. Please can anyone expand on tihis aspect? To summarise, doctors in the Nottingham area were mystified during the 1960s by an incidence of lung disease among a significant number of middle-aged women, mostly housewives. However, investigation revealed that most/all of them had previously worked for Boots just before and during the war filling vast numbers of gas mask cartridges with handfuls of blue asbestos fibres. With no respiratory protection apparently or other precautions being taken, their exposure to airborne fibres would have been considerable and prolonged. Apparently other firms assembled gas mask cartridges under similar conditions, so it's very likely that similar circumstances would have occurred elsewhere. Does anyone know of multiple cases elsewhere? This information remains very pertinent because various museums have WW2 gas masks of various types on display or in storage. Also, it's likely that some gas masks have been retained as curiosity items or forgotten about in lofts or cupboards in private dwellings. When I happen to see gas masks during visits to museums I tend to ask staff if they know what the cartridges contain. Thankfully, most do - which seems to reflect reasonably good awareness of this matter among people and organisations involved with museums. However, it's likely that very few people who encounter gas masks in private dwellings (perhaps while clearing those of elderly relatives who have died) will know of their asbestos content. Thus, masks which are being discarded will get put into normal household waste with subsequent risk of damage to cartridges during compaction or pulverising processes and scattering of asbestos fibres. Also, a few curious people might even try to open the cartridges to find out what they contain. My understanding is that the asbestos inside the metal cartridge cases is enclosed by pads at each end, and therefore poses no risk provided that the cannisters are left intact and unopened. However, please could any forum users involved with museums confirm or correct this aspect?
Lawlee45239  
#7 Posted : 21 February 2012 14:55:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Lawlee45239

I love this forum, learn something new every day. Thanks to all you guys who have a wealth of knowledge. (it may be known by a lot out there, but when you are young and not from the country sometimes these things dont come into consideration until they need to).
Graham Bullough  
#8 Posted : 22 February 2012 11:44:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Graham Bullough

According to the SHP web article about the Eternit trial neither of the two accused men were present when convicted and sentenced, and apparently never attended any of the trail hearing. Therefore, it might be unlikely that they will spend any time in prison pending appeal. Another aspect of the case is that if the men were convicted of breaching health & safety laws between 1976 and 1986, did Italy have any organisation to enforce such laws during that period? If so, did the organisation try to enforce the laws relating to asbestos? If it didn't, why not? It's appropriate to mention that during the same period in the UK, the newly-formed HSE did take asbestos seriously and has done so ever since. Some people might suggest that some of this arose from the report of the Government Inquiry around 1976 into many asbestos-related deaths (employees and also local residents) associated with the asbestos works of Cape Insulation Ltd at Acre Mill near Hebden Bridge in West Yorkshire. HSE's main precedecessor, HM Factory Inspectorate (HMFI), was heavily criticised for not having effectively enforced the Asbestos Industry Regulations 1931 at Acre Mill. It could be argued that the 1931 regulations were very limited and ineffective, and that recognition of this by the late 1960s had resulted in their replacement by the Asbestos Regulations 1969. However, the 1969 Regulations were also limited because they only covered employees at premises defined as factories or locations for building operations and engineering construction. It seems that there was no law about protecting non-employees from asbestos exposure (and other risks to their safety or health) until the arrival of the revolutionary Health and Safety at Work Act 1974 which included all-encompassing duties under Section 3 to protect non-employees.
Ron Hunter  
#9 Posted : 22 February 2012 12:16:49(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Graham Bullough wrote:
It's appropriate to mention that during the same period in the UK, the newly-formed HSE did take asbestos seriously and has done so ever since.
Also appropriate to temper that with the observation (as made elsewhere in this Forum) that the HSE have finally got around to making required changes to the Control of Asbestos Regs (due to be revised April) in response to a Directive issued in 2003 and that the HSE further propose an additional 3 year transition for the protection (via medical surveillance) for a risk group not hitherto recognised in the Regulations.
bod212  
#10 Posted : 22 February 2012 14:57:52(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
bod212

It was only when CAR2006 came into force that the 'At Work', as in Control of Asbestos At Work Regulations 2002 was dropped. Like it was only ever used in the 'workplace'. The drip drip of necessary change I think. My sources tell me that the UK and Belgium are the most regulated - in terms of asbestos -places in the EU. So why has it taken so long to recognise and comply with this directive? That was a rhetorical question, by the way. It's interesting that you mention museums Graham. I visited a newly opened museum with the exhibits moved from the old place. I spotted an ACM in one of the exhibits. 'Cos I know what to look for. This piqued my interest. I sent a nice email off to them just out of curiosity. I expect them to know about it and how to manage it. I am still awaiting their response...
Graham Bullough  
#11 Posted : 23 February 2012 12:35:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Graham Bullough

My point in #8 about HSE taking asbestos seriously was based on impressions gained, rightly or wrongly, about the apparent level of knowledge and enforcement regarding asbestos before HSE was formed on 1st Jan 1975. Though I’ve no special knowledge or expertise regarding asbestos I guess that advances in air monitoring equipment and laboratory analysis of samples during the 1970s also made a positive contribution, along with improvements in PPE and filtration equipment, etc. Also, there was something of a buzz, positive attitude or whatever you call it, about being within a newly formed organisation with a mission to reduce work-related deaths, injury and disease. Also, the investigation of the Flixborough Disaster after it occurred in June 1974 almost certainly helped to raise the public profile of HMFI/HSE at the time. (Though the disaster will remain known within OS&H circles, I guess that the name “Flixborough” will mean little nowadays to most people under the age of 40 in the UK.) For those interested in more information about Acre Mill and asbestos, have a look at http://www.hebdenbridge....k/features/acremill.html It includes the fact that the asbestos processes there included the filling of cartridges for WW2 gas masks. It also includes clips from the TV documentaries "The Dust at Acre Mill" and "Alice - a fight for life" which greatly helped to raise public awareness about the horrendous effects of asbestos. Even though the importation, supply and use of asbestos and asbestos products has been banned in the UK for some years (brown & blue asbestos from mid-1980s and white asbestos from 1999), vast amounts of asbestos remain in the UK as legacy materials, notably insulation and other building materials, from before the bans. These materials still pose a risk, hence the strict laws about managing them and preventing exposure to their asbestos content.
RayRapp  
#12 Posted : 23 February 2012 20:02:28(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

Interesting comments, for me the startling statistic is that ALL asbestos products were not banned in the UK until 1999! When I have provided AAT I have asked those present when the import, use and manufacture of asbestos products was totally banned in the UK. Without fail they all choose dates prior to 1999 except of course for those in the know. So, who is going to put their hand up for that one...
Graham Bullough  
#13 Posted : 24 February 2012 12:38:42(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Graham Bullough

Though I knew that the import and use of brown and blue asbestos in the UK was banned in 1985 I was slightly surprised when checking yesterday to find that a similar ban on white asbestos wasn’t enacted until as late as 1999. In practice I guess that imports of white asbestos and manufacturing of products from it dwindled from the 1980s or perhaps earlier because of 1) increasing attitudes against asbestos of any sort and 2) the firms involved probably foresaw/were told that a full ban would arrive sooner or later. When I did an internet search yesterday about banning asbestos in the UK I had some initial difficulty. Various websites appeared with dates of bans and then I twigged that they were about bans in other countries including the USA, Canada and Australia. Therefore, to avoid any doubt, it’s appropriate to cite a HSE webpage regarding the Control of Asbestos Regulations 2006 at http://www.hse.gov.uk/asbestos/regulations.htm which gives clear information. It’s appropriate to emphasis that the 2006 regulations continue a ban on the SECOND-HAND use of asbestos products such as asbestos cement sheets, asbestos boards and tiles. Therefore, for example, it’s illegal to remove corrugated asbestos roofing sheets from a building and re-use them elsewhere. However, if materials which contain asbestos are in use and in good condition, they may be left in place provided that they are effectively managed.
bod212  
#14 Posted : 24 February 2012 13:39:18(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
bod212

Asbestos becomes waste as soon as it removed from its original location. It's still a big problem in the agricultural industry as asbestos cement (AC) sheets are frequently moved/ modified when farm buildings are changed in any way. AC sheets are often stored and used for 'patching' up leaks, storm damage, etc by unsuspecting or reckless farmers.
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