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Can someone out there clarify a problem I've encountered with working with scissors lifts. The general concensus is that harnesses do not have to worn when using a scissor lift, although some (Compact H10/12) come fitted with an anchorage point. The Haoulette model with the same height range does not.
If a model is fitted with an anchorage point, do I have to wear a harnesses, or does that depend on my R/A ?
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Rank: Super forum user 
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See if I get this right?
MEWP (scissor type) operated indoors on a flat surface - no need for harness.
Cherry picker - harness every time.
MEWP (scissor type) operated outdoors and where there is a chance of uneven ground, pot holes etc. - harness.
Risk assessment of course.
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Rank: Forum user
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Firesafety,
Thats sounds right to me. There is of course always a however - some Principal Contractors are now saying that harnesses are to be worn at all times when operating a scissor unless you can justify not wearing them by RA. Two men, 1400mm x 1200mm Plasterboard, is in my books reason not to be wearing them.
Whilst I am all for being pro-active and going above and beyond the minimum requirement, I do sometimes wonder why some PC's ignore the guidance and instead bring in their own standards placing more of a burden on Sub-Contractors. Then ignore basic basic requirements like loading bays etc.
Regards
Clive
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Rank: Forum user
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A full body harness with a short lanyard (adjustable) would be required in a boom type (cherry picker.)
You would not normally use a harness or any other type of personal fall protection in a vertical lift (Scissor)unless there are exceptional circumstances or if it is a specific site rule. I do not always agree with this type of specific site rule but unfortunately the client who is paying usually gets his way.
Any work such as this should be subject to a specific task RA which should then identify any need for extra fall protection
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Rank: Super forum user
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A prime requirement for any scissor lift use is level even ground so they should never be a need to RA the uneven or potholed ground.
As most PCs fail to mention such harness rules in the contract I tend to ignore them or charge extra for their use.
Bob
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Rank: Super forum user
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Chris Cahill wrote:A full body harness with a short lanyard (adjustable) would be required in a boom type (cherry picker.)
You would not normally use a harness or any other type of personal fall protection in a vertical lift (Scissor)unless there are exceptional circumstances or if it is a specific site rule. I do not always agree with this type of specific site rule but unfortunately the client who is paying usually gets his way.
Any work such as this should be subject to a specific task RA which should then identify any need for extra fall protection
Agree in principle with what you say, Chris. No requirement for harness/lanyard in a scissor lift unless client insists due to R/A or site rules. I know the OP didn't ask about C/Pickers but full harness with short lanyard (restraint) in a cherry picker.
Personally, we should be looking at fall PREVENTION, not fall PROTECTION.
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Rank: Forum user
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Firesafety101 wrote:See if I get this right?
MEWP (scissor type) operated indoors on a flat surface - no need for harness.
Cherry picker - harness every time.
MEWP (scissor type) operated outdoors and where there is a chance of uneven ground, pot holes etc. - harness.
Risk assessment of course.
Agree with this. keep it as simple as possible.
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Rank: Forum user
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I believe that a short lanyard is a suitable means of fall prevention in a cheery picker, securing an authorised person to an anchorage using a suitable lanyard short enough to prevent the person’s center of
gravity from reaching the fall hazard is both fall prevention and fall protection
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Note* that should be cherry picker (must learn to spell check first)
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Rank: Super forum user
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Chris Cahill wrote:I believe that a short lanyard is a suitable means of fall prevention in a cheery picker, securing an authorised person to an anchorage using a suitable lanyard short enough to prevent the person’s center of
gravity from reaching the fall hazard is both fall prevention and fall protection
It was only for clarity, Chris incase somebody thought a fall arrest lanyard would suffice, which only offers fall protection.
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Rank: Forum user
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Thanks for the clarification Frankc I think we are both in agreement really, just slightly wording it differently
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Rank: Super forum user
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Have to re-emphasise that anybody who attempts to use these on uneven potholed ground really needs to look again at what they are doing. This type of ground is unsuitable for scissorlifts. If you have done an RA for it then tear it up and find alternatives.
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quote=boblewis]Have to re-emphasise that anybody who attempts to use these on uneven potholed ground really needs to look again at what they are doing. This type of ground is unsuitable for scissorlifts. If you have done an RA for it then tear it up and find alternatives.
Bob that`s not quite . The RA should identify suitable equipment.
I have in the past arranged hire of all terrain scisor lifts (4 wheel drive) diesel powered with four separate outriggers that level on slopes up to 10deg.
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I was told on my IPAF Course:
Cherry Picker: Harness & Restraint Lanyard at ALL times
Scissor Lift: Harness & Restraint Lanyard whilst travelling irrespective of surface, not required when stationary.
This is to prevent 'catapulting', I did query about inside on flat floor but was told that there had been incidents of broken flooring giving rise to mild catapulting incidents.
The Lanyard must be a retsraint lanyard (Max 2m length and adjustable to be shortened) the 'bungee' type lanyards are not acceptable.
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I think you should contact your course provider and discuss this issue with them. I suggest you check out the official IPAF guidance note H1/05/05on
You have been informed incorrectly by your course provider
I see no point in having a 2 mtr length lanyard when your in a scissor lift that's not raised and traveling, you would be approx 1.2mtrs to 1.5mtrs high *(approx height of floor of MEWP) The lanyard length and the length of your body is more than the height of the MEWP, how will this help!
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Rank: Super forum user
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Chris
Precisely any RA using one on such ground is wrong. 10 degree slope to me is level as in flat rooofs have slopes up to around 10 degrees. All terrain definitions do not mean "anywhere " for this kit.
Scissorlifts are also interlocked nowdays to prevent travel until the platform is low enough to avoid overturn - thus harnesses are still not needed. Mind you as an auditor it was easy target to find non conformances etc for failing to enforce a rule that requires use only when travelling. It also indicated a lack of understanding of the equipment being used. Equally PCs catch cold the other way for their universal rules for harnesses. Unfortunately many auditors now seem to feel to lacking in confidence to challenge these actions and rules
Bob
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Bob
I don't think I stated this type of equipment should be used anywhere!
I stated that the RA should identify suitable equipment.
All terrain scissor lifts are commonplace when working on unfinished sites,to clarify they can cope with 10deg side slope & 6 deg forward slope.
However, I do agree that a scissor lift is probably the wrong equipment to use in a potholed environment.
Chris
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Rank: Super forum user
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If a scissor lift does not have harness attachment point do you still use a harness?
What is the chance of pulling a scissor lift onto yourself if you are attached by harness and the thing tilts and throws you out?
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Rank: New forum user
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Hi All - I am heavily involved with this subject. IPAF (www.ipaf.org) insist that with any boom type MEWP (eg Cherry Picker) a full body harness along with an adjustable restraint lanyard should be worn at all times due to the machine being known to throw people out of the platform.
With a scissor lift, it really depends on a number of factors. The size of the platform (will the lanyard create a tripping hazard), the main contractor (if there is one) can sometimes have an influence on whether or not a harness should be worn. But due to the platforms design it is often accepted that the guardrails would act as sufficient fall prevention. The only additional reason to wear a harness in a scissor lift is if personnel are 'standing' on the guardrail and using the equipment in the wrong way. All this is determind by your R/A as mentioned.
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Deja vu ~ all over again!
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Firesafety 101 in answer to your questions( If a scissor lift does not have harness attachment point do you still use a harness?)
if there is not a harness anchor point and your RA has identified the need for a harness then you have selected the wrong equipment. If you anchor to the correct point then that is fine ,anchor anywhere else and you then enter unknown territory
so the answer is No. RA the task again and ensure competent persons select the correct equipment, ensure competent users operate the equipment.
your second question:
(What is the chance of pulling a scissor lift onto yourself if you are attached by harness and the thing tilts and throws you out?)
If the correct equipment is selected and used then virtually no chance , incorrect equipment then you are back to unknown territory it could be possible so lets not take a chance.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Chris
I think we have a similar hymn sheet after all:-)
Bob
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