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chrismatthews  
#1 Posted : 21 February 2012 16:27:08(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
chrismatthews

Please consider the following scenario and tell me what you would do? Employee diagnosed with sleep apnea and is given treatment that involves the use of oxygen whilst sleeping at night; they have to use this every night and it is for an indefinite period if not permanent. They are instructed that not using it will increase the potential for them to fall asleep during the day. The employee fails to follow medical advice and subsequently falls asleep at work. The company send the employee to occupational health who advise him to start and continue using the treatment [which he should not have stopped in the first place]. The employee has to use forklift trucks and machinery as part of his job; OH have advised that he is fit to return to work as long as he maintains treatment. My concern is he has failed to do this once already; IF he failed to carry out this instruction a second time and fell asleep at the wheel of a vehicle at work the consequence could result in the fatality of another employee. I am really uncomfortable permitting this person to operate vehicles but respect that there are many equallity and disability acts and regulations which must be considered. What are your thoughts on this and does the safety of others over-ride what could be considered a disability? Thank you in advance for your comments Chris
David Bannister  
#2 Posted : 21 February 2012 16:48:59(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
David Bannister

Hi Chris, I think that this is a scenario where the closest possible communication between H&S, Occ H and HR functions is essential. In pure safety terms, you need to be sure that the employee remains capable of doing the high-hazard job safely. Any doubt should result in removal from the job in accordance with your existing procedures (ihope they exist?) until the company are once again assured that safety is achievable. All other considerations are in the realm of the other members of your management team to deal with according to their specialities. Occ H and HR expertise in this matter is beyond me!
stevedm  
#3 Posted : 21 February 2012 17:38:58(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

Had a very similar scenario with a tanker driver. Agree with David close communication with HR (escpecially) and Occupational Health. I assume he still has his car/hgv driving licence? There is no reason for DVLA to withdraw it so long as he keeps up his treatment... We were fortunate that we had identified the role as safety critical...which meant a required performance standard... I drafted a reply but it is too emotive for a public forum...you have a PM. Thanks Steve
chrismatthews  
#4 Posted : 21 February 2012 19:01:34(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
chrismatthews

Thank you both for your response, I appreciate your comments. Steve pm very helpful, I think this is the way forward.
RayRapp  
#5 Posted : 21 February 2012 20:31:24(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

Chris, you don't actually say where or when he fell asleep, but hopefully not whilst operating a FLT! People do fall asleep at work, sometimes just a cat nap in their break time, whilst chilling, etc. I will not repeat the good advice already provided, I will add that the safety of others is paramount. Hence you need to be confident that this person does not present an unacceptable risk to himself or others. Having already identified an incident, albeit due to him not taking his prescribed treatment, increases the likelihood of a repeat incident in my view. I would seriously consider removing him from risky operations until confident that he no longer presents an unacceptable risk. Health and safety supercedes any disability, discrimination issues, so don't worry on that score.
boblewis  
#6 Posted : 21 February 2012 21:32:11(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
boblewis

There is something odd with the treatment as O2 treatment is NOT that recommended by NICE. The standard treatment is CPAP, continuous positive air pressure. This involves the use of a small pump and facemask and it is a permanent need. Until established the DVLA will withdraw the driving licence. You need to get some more information here. Take it from a sufferer and the falling asleep is totally uncontrollable. Once it starts in a day then there is no real recovery until several hours sleep have been taken. Even then the sleepiness continues through to bedtime. In a real sense this is a disability in terms of the equality act 2010. Bob
frankc  
#7 Posted : 21 February 2012 22:44:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
frankc

A friend of mine who suffers from this informed the DVLA and he had to answer a questionnaire to ascertain the level of his OSA. Questions were like:- Do you fall asleep during the day while you are... a) Having a conversation 4 points b) Reading 3 points c) Watching TV 2 points d) After a meal 1 point The higher your score, the more chance you have of losing your licence, i believe. This may be of interest. http://www.sleep-apnoea-...A%20Driving%20%20OSA.pdf
stevedm  
#8 Posted : 22 February 2012 07:50:12(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

The only way to definitively identify sleep apnoea is through a clinical sleep survey. I have commissioned these twice for individuals one as a result of a fatal vehicle accident the other as a result of hi potential vehicle accident. They are extremely costly. CPAP is the normal treatment option, however there are other lifestyle issues that can affect it. There are OH programs available to survey employees and place them in risk categories again they are costly for little gain. This is a little like suspension trauma rare event but when it happens big impact...so justifying the cost is difficult.
Steve-IOM  
#9 Posted : 22 February 2012 08:19:29(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Steve-IOM

You may like to talk to him and ask if he has much warning that he is going to fall asleep, i.e. is he out light or does he gradually go over 30 minutes? It would make a big difference to the actual level of risk. If he has reasonable warning he can actually park up and sit down in a safe area.
boblewis  
#10 Posted : 22 February 2012 11:11:37(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
boblewis

Sorry but if he is diagnosed as sleep aponeaic and is not undertaking treatment then NO RA can permit driving. The falling asleep is much the same as sleep narcolepsy - virtually instantaneous.
frankc  
#11 Posted : 22 February 2012 12:44:10(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
frankc

boblewis wrote:
Sorry but if he is diagnosed as sleep aponeaic and is not undertaking treatment then NO RA can permit driving. The falling asleep is much the same as sleep narcolepsy - virtually instantaneous.
On the link provided in response No 7, Bob, the Sleep Apnoea Trust offer different information. It offers examples of severe daytime sleepiness to mild or moderate OSA in relation to whether they should drive or not.
colinreeves  
#12 Posted : 22 February 2012 13:54:56(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
colinreeves

My partner was diagnosed with this just over a year ago. Following a hospital supervised overnight clinical trial a CPAP machine was provided and the DVLA advised to withdraw the driving licence pending results from the CPAP machine over a month or so. This treatment was successful and the DVLA reinstated the licence after the consultant's advice. However, CPAP machines do log all events each night and this can be downloaded. This would provide evidence as to whether the person involved was following treatment. Admittedly, I suspect this would have to be voluntary, but suggest that not agreeing would be a prime facie case that he was not following the treatment and you could then suspend.
boblewis  
#13 Posted : 23 February 2012 13:04:27(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
boblewis

Frankc I think the trust are being a bit wishy washy - certainly colinreeves post gives a pretty accurate picture of what happens to almost all patients regardless of severity. The DVLA know that sleep can overtake the person at any time and there is no real margin of error for a RA to be undertaken. Once treatment is established they are happy to re-instate a licence. Bear in mind that if anything does happen and treatment is not being followed the Police will always look to the most severe sentence as the person knows they have a problem. Any accident involving falling asleep will almost certainly mean at least a dangerous driving charge - an injury or death as a result will bring the full weight of the law. The OP has a problem and he has to get the employee to use his treatment or perhaps get his HR to look at dismissal via capability issues. Yes the person is disabled but that does not provide a right to put others at risk of major injury or death.
Paul B  
#14 Posted : 23 February 2012 14:49:32(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Paul B

After many years of feeling permanently exhausted, my concentration levels were low and my work was suffering because of this, I was fighting to stay awake during important H&S meetings and would often have to pull over to nap if driving during the course of my duties. I was diagnosed with "Sleep Apnea" after an overnight clinical sleep test at my local hospital. I was immediately given a CPAP machine, Continuous Positive Air Pressure(Which does not involve the use of oxygen) Within days I felt like a new man a complete reversal of my symptoms. This made me realise how bad thing had been pre CPAP. If the employee with the Apnea condition is wearing his mask nightly for a minimum of 4 hrs then his condition will be deemed as managed and should be of no risk. If the employee is still feeling lack of sleep symptoms, then I feel he should be suspended from driving and given none machinery operating duties pending hospital reports and a CPAP chip print out from the hospital so as to determine if it is being used correctly.
boblewis  
#15 Posted : 23 February 2012 23:11:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
boblewis

I think I am going to have to question who exactly has been treating this person. GPs are know to use O2 therapy as a stop gap but is has risks including elevated daytime CO2 in blood levels. I do think you need to look further at WHO is treating if it is not a sleep clinic then you have to do some hard thinking. Like Paul I am hopeless without my CPAP machine
Ron Hunter  
#16 Posted : 24 February 2012 12:36:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Slightly off-topic I know, but I found this article http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16964783 most interesting, and this comment therein is particularly relevant to this discussion: "Over 30% of the medical problems that doctors are faced with stem directly or indirectly from sleep. But sleep has been ignored in medical training and there are very few centres where sleep is studied..."
IanDakin  
#17 Posted : 24 February 2012 12:57:41(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
IanDakin

I had a similar situation. An employee (with a poor safety record) was advised by their GP that they may have SA and they were refered to a sleep clinic. I advised the site safety officer to take him off MHE until we could sort out whether or not he was safe. They did not do this, and later on the same day the employee was found asleep on a counter balance truck. We had to work with the employee, occuaptional health and HR to work aiut a plan. This included self help activities to supplement the treatment following diagnosis. SA can be helped by weight loss, CV exercise, reducing alcohol and stopping smoking. The employee found it helpful to cycle to work and drink less - the result of this also led to weight loss. I would suggest a similar approach. Make sure you involve the employee in all of this, as per the principals of vocational rehabilitation.
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