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messyshaw  
#1 Posted : 10 March 2012 18:36:03(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
messyshaw

A very large office building has two security staff at night/weekend. There are other staff in the building on an ad hoc (overtime) basis during those times The emergency plan is that security staff have 6 minutes to search for the fire before the alarm tips everyone out.

Due to the limited number of security staff, it is not possible for both staff members to search together, as one has to remain in post in the security room. The premises is 75% offices, plus some workshop activity concerned with R&D and other higher risk areas such as a massive print room complex and numerous plant rooms.

I am unhappy with the search being carried out by one person, but employing additional staff is not possible, and abandoning staff searches would require a fire service attendance which they aren't happy to do unless the building has been searched.

I am considering a system to reduce the risk to that lone searcher, such as additional dynamic risk assessment training, backed up with using a radio to keep in constant contact with the security room and a limited number of additional cctvs.

Has anyone any experience overcoming this, or a similar issue? Is there any other technical measure that I could consider which maybe useful to protect this lone worker situation??? Just to confirm, that addition staff is not an option, neither is abandoning the staff search procedure. No other staff are regularly available to assist during these out of hours times.
paul.skyrme  
#2 Posted : 10 March 2012 18:59:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
paul.skyrme

Could you not enhance the use of technology?
That is a more advanced fire alarm system indicating the sources and nature of the alarm?
Perhaps cctv to identify or ensure that the areas are clear?
A more robust method of monitoring staff presence?
Swipe cards etc for access egress?

Just thoughts and questions as per usual from me!
Ron Hunter  
#3 Posted : 11 March 2012 00:19:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Who can justify this 6 minute delay from first alarm to main alarm? What happens through the week?
This emergency plan needs a serious rethink, and some significant investment in a zoned alarm system is required.
martinw  
#4 Posted : 11 March 2012 10:31:58(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
martinw

Ron, I am guessing that the zone in alarm gives the signal to exit immediately, with other non-adjacent zones having some sort of intermittent tone until 6 minutes has elapsed, upon which the whole place goes into evac mode. Messy will correct me if I am wrong.
Messy in the past I have come across this issue. The one which worked best is leaving the day routine as it is and either increasing resources out of hours - cctv, security, upgrade to fire alarm etc, the obvious things - but most landlords won't get the tanners out to pay for this.
Best I have seen is when I worked in corporate security in a very large office block. The level of working out of hours was low, and there were 18 floors in this block. All occupied by one company, which made it a little easier.
Three security staff out of hours. One to stay in ground level control room which was adjacent to main reception to work the cctv, panels and electronic doors to let Herts Fire Service in, two to search the building. Each floor took a minute so there was no way unless you trebled security that this could be carried out in six minutes.
So overtime working was simply not allowed unless it was either a) organised in advance and security were informed accordingly or b) unplanned overtime was taking place in which case those staying behind HAD to inform who, where and for how long. Those who did not ring to tell security they were staying were found during routine inspections and were instructed to leave immediately. The process had been agreed by the client MD who agreed that this process was the only way forward and that if people were found without informing security, they would face disciplinary action.
Tried a dummy run three times and all staff staying behind were where they said they were. Went back to Herts F&R who agreed that with the procecedure/systems we had, no search would be necessary if fire alarm sounded - with certain very strict caveats and as long as we had dry runs quarterly. Lucky also in that the card entry system for all doors could show at a press of a button how many were left in the building and even which door they had last accessed. Just had to compare that with the list of those who had organised staying behind. If the lists were equal, all good, and in an out of hours evac, as the people left they still were told to swipe their cards even though the locks were released, which showed that they were out of the building.
Thinking of doing this in a building in central London which I now have taken on some fire and H&S responsibility for, but multi client, some clients more open to FM management instruction than others. I have a meeting next week to propose, will see how it goes.
messyshaw  
#5 Posted : 12 March 2012 10:47:37(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
messyshaw

ron hunter wrote:
Who can justify this 6 minute delay from first alarm to main alarm? What happens through the week?
This emergency plan needs a serious rethink, and some significant investment in a zoned alarm system is required.


Blimey! There's a lot of assumptions there Ron

Firstly, I have justified the 6 minutes delay. It is important that this business is not subject to unwanted disruption. BS5839-1 says that staff search times should not normally exceed 6 minutes, so the timing is code compliant.

The building has a phased, cat L1, fully addressable system with double knock which automatically escalates the alarm status, and a voice alarm system to offer a flexible manner to move staff in a PHE system or fully evacuate staff. The building benefits from sufficient compartmentation to justify the delay, and those with mobility issues begin to evacuate as soon as the pre-alert is sounded, so will be in a place of relative safety (adjacent to a final exit) within the 6 minute period. During the 6 minute delay, there are no sounders - except for paging devices given to those with mobility issues and messages on security staff radios.

I believe the emergency plan is largely suitable & sufficient and does not require a 'serious rethink', however I am more than happy to debate my opinion as even I can make mistakes!. As I mentioned, it is the issue of insufficient staff numbers out of hours that worries me.

Martin: This staff search relates to searching for the cause of the actuation rather than sweeping areas following an evacuation order. Out of hours, the EP for this building uses a print out of passes and a roll call, so no sweep is necessary.

Security carry radios to keep in constant contact during searches and have cellphone connection with each other as a fall back. The building has significant CCTV coverage, so I am considering identifying blind spots which are in areas of higher risk and suggesting additional CCTVs as the RP will not provide a 3rd member of the security team out of hours.

Despite potential improvements in CCTV coverage, I am still uneasy about a single member of staff searching for a fire, so would appreciate any advice or experiences of similar situations.

Safety Smurf  
#6 Posted : 12 March 2012 11:45:53(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Safety Smurf

Hi Messyshaw,

I can see your concerns about having only one person looking for a fire but is that based on the individual's safety or how long it would take them?

In my experience, even where you have more people they would usually split up to search for the fire and it would tend to be only one pserson that ever discovered a source. subsequently the risk to one individual would not be drastically effected by the number looking for it.

How well trained are the guards in looking for fires?
Ron Hunter  
#7 Posted : 12 March 2012 13:14:42(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

In fariness Messy, a presumptive response to a slightly sketchy post?
Am I right in thinking then that security aren't "searching" for a fire, rather they are going directly to an identified zone (as indicated on the addressable panel) to confirm the nature of the alarm?
Presumably on confirming the real fire , activating a break-glass will immediately activate a double-knock and activate the sounder.
6 Minutes is a long time, but on the assumption Security will be using the stairs (not the lifts) and not knowing the number of storeys, that still might be an issue for you. As others say, are they trained on the correct procedures for confirming fire (as opposed to grasping the hot handle etc.!)
I presume also that immediate movement of mobility impaired persons to the places of relative safety won't act as a "throttle" to the safe evac of everyone else. Our usual practice is to have the mobility impaired hanging back a bit.
Cell phones and radios can let you down when you've a few concrete walls in the way too.
In all respects these complex issues are very difficult to resolve via this type of Forum where we can't see the building, systems, layout etc. I do hope you'lll take my postings here in the positive spirit intended.
Graham39995  
#8 Posted : 12 March 2012 13:48:42(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Graham39995

Messy, I have experience of a similar situation to yours and the answer is really a combination of technology and training:
1. Ensure that there are adequate communications between searcher and control room at all times.
2. Ensure sufficient CCTVs that automatically 'pan' onto the area involved on activation of detector head therefore providing an early visual to control room and continuous monitoring thereafter.
3. Ensure enhanced training to security staff to limit intervention in a fire situation to that which is manageable by single extinguisher with the caveat that if in doubt (e.g. noise, smell, etc, from behind a door) do not intervene - ensure doors are closed to contain the fire then confirm fire to FRS and await their arrival.
The latter point is extremely important as a suitable and sufficient FRA will suggest that one person should not tackle a developing fire (only small and contained) and that any confirmed instances of fire should always be relayed immediately to the FRS due to inconsistencies in local Unwanted Calls policies to then ensure the correct response is mobilised.
messyshaw  
#9 Posted : 12 March 2012 18:30:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
messyshaw

Firstly, Ron - I appreciate all posts and am grateful for the open and generous nature of contributors on this forum. I agree, I only gave limited info on the original post, but to be fair, I was making an enquiry into the appropriateness of a lone worker search policy and not whether the 6 minute delay was acceptable.

Those searching are indeed proceeding to the origin of the fire alarm actuation and the addressable nature of the alarm system actually pin points the specific head & room involved. Taking into account the 110,000m size of the premises, plus certain complexities regarding the use of the building, six minutes has been assessed as appropriate.

Thanks to everyone involved with responding to this thread. I am often working in an environment without the possibility to throw ideas around to peers. Sometimes it is useful to do here. It seems that my proposal to increase CCTV coverage, and provide additional training to staff go some way to reducing risks to security staff. When lone working staff are not permitted to extinguish fires of any size, and all have had training involving dynamic risk assessing and entering rooms. A strict keep in touch policy is in place, and where radios become defective, staff must stop and make contact with the security room (by fire phone or cell phone) before proceeding further.

Thanks
Safety Smurf  
#10 Posted : 13 March 2012 10:50:32(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Safety Smurf

I will just add a slight aside to this. Specifically regarding radio reliability/range;

All PMR's are not created equal! You get what you pay for!
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