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Transport and store LPG and diesel on pick up
Rank: Forum user
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As a tarring contractor, we transprot LPG and diesel on the back of our pick up. I know as we only move small quantities (less than 333kg) we are exempt from the Carriage of Dangerous goodsregs. My main query is if we leave this stored on the back of the pick-up overnight on a public highway. As an example our driver may load the materials on the pickup the night before, park outside his house to get away early to site in the morning.
Th only information I can find is that the LPG should be secured to prevent falling during transportand we should carry 2x2kg powder extinguisher. Also the diesel container should be bunded.
Any help to clarify this matter would be gratefully recieved
Kevin
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Rank: Super forum user
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kevinmuir wrote: I know as we only move small quantities (less than 333kg) we are exempt from the Carriage of Dangerous goodsregs. Wrong. The Regulations apply to any person responsible for the carriage by road of dangerous goods (in tankers or packages) in connection with their work. Less than 333kg is exempt only from PART of the regs, e.g. some training and signage. Kevin, if you have not understood the regs and the code of practice, note: LPG cylinders must not be left on board an open pick-up van, and should not be left in a closed van unnecessarily; should be loaded immediately prior to the journey and removed immediately the destination is reached. If carrying cylinders in a closed van, it is a Code of Practice requirement that at least 3 red diamond flammable gas danger signs are affixed, one to each of the sides and one to the rear of the van. LPG cylinders should be stored in accordance with the UKLPG Code of Practice No. 7 "Storage of Full and Empty LPG Cylinders and Cartridges" Does your driver have a Transport Emergency Card (TREM CARD) with safety information, and a Consignment Note indicating the quantity of LPG and the number of cylinders carried, [designation as UN1978, PROPANE, 2.1 (flammable gas)]. If requested by a police officer, or other enforcing authority, the driver must produce documents to identify the Dangerous Substance (LPG), the hazards, emergency action, the quantity carried. If you are a frequent transporter of LPG (say more than once a week) of small loads you need management control - a trained Transport of Dangerous Goods Safety Advisers (TDGSA). At least two fire extinguishers must be carried to deal with 1. a fire in the engine or cab of the vehicle 2. a fire in the back of the van. Adequate ventilationis needed in a closed van, equal to 2% of floor area of the load compartment. So for a van with floor space 4 sq.metres the vent should be at least 800 sq.cms or about size 30cms x 30cms or 1 sq. foot. I recommend you take on board any of that which is missing from your procedures. The police are pretty sharp on this subject around here. John
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Rank: Forum user
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I think you are refering to two different issues here, security, and transport of Dangerous Goods, both are refered to in CDG, however only one is relevant with this amount of products.
Security: CDG Regs /ADR will not be relevant for these amounts, so the security is down to your own interanal procedures. So I would personally not leave on the back of the pickup in case of theft.
Dangerous Goods: The only requirement if under 1000 litres/KG, is for one 2kg fire extinguisher, there is no requirement for Instruction in Writing (TREMCARD)
Traing should be commensurate with with your drivers duties, there are three types of training here general awareness, function specific, i.e. gas cylinders & diesel, and safety training.
There is no requirement for any flammable signs, in fact you would be in breach of CDG for displaying such placards.
Yes, ensure the cylinders are transported upright and secured to the vehicle, normaly some sort of cradle would suffice, if the diesel container is UN approved I would not worry to much about bunding.
You are not storing cylinders you are transporting cylinders, code of practice mentioned below is not relevant.
There is also a CDG derogation so no document are required if carrying under the threshold mentioned above.
Generally it is not the police but VOSA who would enforce these requirements.
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Rank: Super forum user
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pharagreaves, thanks for response, though it succeeds in confusing matters.
Saying 'no requirement' ignores guidance given in codes of practice.
Storage is an issue if you store cylinders in a van overnight or for weeks on end.
LPGA Code of Practice No. 27 is the basis for most of the recommendations I've given, e.g. van signs
TREM card and consignment note are recommended because police in the West Midlands DO look for these things.
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Rank: Super forum user
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JohnW - phargreaves04 is quiet right in saying no flamable signs are required and that you would be in breach of CDG - the signs you refer to are purely for packaging of dangerous goods I had issues with this in the past and found VOSA to be very helpful in what is actually required. I would also suggest that if a fire was to start in the rear of the van where a gas cylinder was stored I would be a candidate for the Olympics, I would not be tackling it with a 2kg dry powder extinguisher I would let the big boys in their big red truck put it out - I have seen what happens to a vehicle when a propane cylinder goes bang - not a lot left and it can happen very quickly when in a enclosed van
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Rank: Super forum user
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MEden380 wrote:JohnW - phargreaves04 is quiet right in saying no flamable signs are required and that you would be in breach of CDG - the signs you refer to are purely for packaging of dangerous goods
I agree that no signage is required on the vehicle. Also, if you fix the signage onto the vehicle, what would you do with them when the vehicle is not carrying the gas cylinders? Misleading information to the emergency services if there is an incident and the signs are still stuck on. Andy
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Rank: Super forum user
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quote=JohnW] kevinmuir wrote: I know as we only move small quantities (less than 333kg) we are exempt from the Carriage of Dangerous goodsregs. If carrying cylinders in a closed van, it is a Code of Practice requirement that at least 3 red diamond flammable gas danger signs are affixed, one to each of the sides and one to the rear of the van. John John. Is the above CoP the UKLPG 7, for the red diamonds to be affixed to the vehicle? Thanks Andy
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Rank: Forum user
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I had a similar issue - just transporting a gas cylinder for a barbeque. VOSA were indeed very helpful, and I was told in no uncertain terms not to display triangles on the van. In their view, should the van be involved in an accident then the warning signs would create more delay and confusion than the cylinder would warrant as a hazard. I'm certainly no expert in this area, and was very happy to follow VOSA advice
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Rank: Forum user
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Motorhead wrote:quote=JohnW] kevinmuir wrote: I know as we only move small quantities (less than 333kg) we are exempt from the Carriage of Dangerous goodsregs. If carrying cylinders in a closed van, it is a Code of Practice requirement that at least 3 red diamond flammable gas danger signs are affixed, one to each of the sides and one to the rear of the van. John John. Is the above CoP the UKLPG 7, for the red diamonds to be affixed to the vehicle? Thanks Andy You need CoP27, Carriage of LPG Cylinders by Road. CoP 7 is for storage at fixed sites.
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Rank: Super forum user
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PVZ wrote:
You need CoP27, Carriage of LPG Cylinders by Road.
CoP 7 is for storage at fixed sites.
Cheers Andy
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Rank: Super forum user
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Thanks for all the responses. I agree about the problem of displaying red diamonds when NOT carrying the LPG: in event of accident this would distract emergency services.
So, like Kevin, I'll be reviewing this via VOSA and ACoP 27 etc.
There must be a workable and responsible procedure for vans that carry LPG say once or twice a week but don't want to leave it in vans overnight.
JohnW
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Rank: Forum user
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I would not use the code of practice as a reference, in this case I would reference CDG /ADR 2011. All the information required for the transport of Dangerous Goods is held within. The 2kg fire extinguisher is required as per the regs, however would agree I would not fight a fire involving the load, the 2 kg is only for a potential cab fire. As mentioned earlier I would advise against holding the cylinder/diesel overnight in the pick up purely down to security, failing that i.e. due to operational purposes, I would secure in a lockable cradle/cage on the back of the backup.
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Transport and store LPG and diesel on pick up
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