Rank: Super forum user
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Ladies and Gents,
Seeing as how it's Friday may I present the text of an email forwarded on from a relative in Zimbabwe....
"Please note that the ZRP (Zimbo Police) are authorized to deal with you as follows if you are seen driving and talking on your mobile phone at the same time:-
1. You will be asked to pull over;
2. You will have to drive to the nearest Police station and sign an admission of Guilt and a docket will be opened against you for breaking the law;
3. The Police will not lock you up once you sign the Guilt form but you will thereafter be
4. Summoned to go to court depending on the Magistrate you get on the day you can be fined starting at US$1500 to upwards of US$5000 and also if the Magistrate feels you need to be taught a lesson or made an example of you can also go to JAIL for a minimum of 2 weeks.
5. Please note there are NO SPOT FINES for this offence.
6. Do not attempt to pay your way out of this situation if you don’t have a minimum of US$500 on you then you don’t have enough you will be going to the Police Station anyway.
You are allowed to use a Hands Free Kit while driving.
This information has been given by a Reputable Legal Practitioner in Harare for your benefit and safety."
Interesting to see how others approach the problem.
Jim the Rhodie/Zimbo
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Rank: Forum user
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Nice to see bribery is still a useful tool but only if you have more than US$500 in your wallet.................only an option for the wealthy then!
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Rank: Super forum user
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Was in Marrakech last week. Police officer on a traffic island saw a taxi driver talking on his mobile while negotiating traffic. Stormed across the road, took his phone off him and walked off....
Didn't see what else happened, as taxi driver pulled over out of sight. However, after a minute or two, the police officer got on his motorcycle and rode off.
Another taxi driver at around the same time was trying to pull into a taxi rank. Promptly got blocked in by a Club Med coach dropping off tourists. Taxi driver got a rollicking off same police officer, who asked for his licence/ papers/ whatever. Taxi driver handed over said items, at around the same time as the first incident. He didn't get them back either...
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Rank: Forum user
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Whilst in The Gambia, we enlisted the services of a tour guide. His "taxi" had a huge crack across the windscreen - the back seat was replaced by garden furniture and it had more bumps in it than me in lycra.
We stopped at the traffic lights, he took a call on his mobile. The next thing we knew, a policecman had jumped into the passenger seat and demanded he drive to the police station.
The policeman turned to us, and said "white faces, money money money!" Our guide asked us for about 2000 Gambian dalasi (about £50...) to get his keys back. 2 hours later, none of us had even entered the police station, but sat and negotiated a price in the car park - cost us about £75 in the end!
It was a great holiday though!
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Rank: Super forum user
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An interesting topic about Zimbabwe and likewise the responses regarding Marrakech and The Gambia. I wonder how the police in those places deal with anyone who dares to text while driving! Also, do the police officers get to keep the mobiles involved in the offences? It would certainly be a good incentive for the officers to be vigilant for such offenders!
Perhaps the Zimbabwean system could be used in the UK: Getting arrested people to sign admissions of guilt at police stations would certainly speed up the court hearings. If the accused have already signed such admissions, there wouldn't be any need for conducting trials, examining witnesses, etc. Think of the potential for massive savings in time and money, etc. Better still, perhaps the UK could refine the system by enabling police officers to carry pads of blank admission of guilt sheets and get offenders to sign them on the spot - it would save time and effort taking the offenders to police stations! However, I suppose a slight flaw in this suggestion is that the police station element is actually necessary as an incentive to persuade offenders to sign their admissions. Signing is not compulsory - not signing just means that offenders continue to be detained at the stations!
Also, to add an OS&H slant, perhaps HSE inspectors could also carry admission of guilt sheets for use during visits. Get a signature on a sheet for a swift court hearing (read out charge/s and flourish signed admission before magistrates/judge announce sentence) and thereby save a lot of time and effort gathering evidence, taking witness statements, etc. Just think how this would enable inspectors to inspect many more premises and sites than at present! :-)
p.s. Just in case any forum user misses or misunderstands the smiley :-) above, I'd better add that the above suggestions stem from a bit of whimsical fantasising and therefore shouldn't be taken seriously.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Also, to add an OS&H slant...... brilliant idea Graham, swift justice....who needs lawyers ;-) like it
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Rank: Super forum user
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I don't know about these African countries, but the other day, westbound on the M4 I overtook a VW Polo doing about 50 mph in the middle lane (motorway was busy at the time so she was already causing a tailback). The driver a youngish lady, had two very young children in the back, neither properly secured. She had one hand holding both steering wheel and mobile hone. The other hand was engaged in inputting text!
Why is there never a police car around when you see this sort of thing!
Chris
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Rank: Super forum user
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Come to think of it, as others who read about the background to the TV series "Garrow's Law" may recall, Britain or perhaps just England apparently had a relatively swift justice system until the mid-late 18th century when barristers such as William Garrow developed the adversarial system in court. This included proper investigations into the circumstances upon which persons were accused in order to identify and provide appropriate defences for them in court. William Garrow was a real person upon whom the TV series was based, and the court cases depicted in the two series were based on records of actual cases from Garrow's time although not all of them involved Garrow.
Back to a OS&H slant, anyone who thinks of trying to bribe HSE inspectors should think again. During my time with HSE I was aware of a strong culture against accepting gifts or anything else which might possibly be construed as bribery. For example, one of my bosses mentioned that after concluding a factory inspection somewhere in Northern Scotland he had been offered a whole salmon from a small collection in a car boot. Even though no significant shortcomings had been noted during the visit, he said that he politely declined the offer. (From vague recollection, I think my boss added that as the premises didn't process fish, there was the added complication that the salmon might well have been acquired through poaching!) The culture almost certainly persists. One hint of this comes from comments made by a few inspectors over the past decade or so about formal gifts made to them immediately after they've given presentations at local IOSH meetings.
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Rank: Super forum user
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On a slight tangent.
We had a visit from the UK Border Agency and they wouldn't accept tea, coffee or lunch! They said that there would be too much form filling if they did.
Red tape challenge springs to mind
Andy
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Rank: Super forum user
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It is easy to criticise nations and their systems that were not given a chance/nurtured to build robust institutions of the three basic aspects of national governance, i.e the Executive, the Legislature and Judiciary.
Firstly, most of these countries had minimal self-rule/capable independent institutions until they neared having independence, mostly in the Nineteen Sixties.
Secondly, instead of being nurtured, these countries became the "Cold War" battleground for the spheres of influence of the superpowers (USA/the west/capitalist model and USSR/Communism) where it was almost no holds barred. This resulted in military/dictatorship regimes in most part of Africa that did not build upon these institutions.
We are seeing the results of this oversight by the victors of the second World War and the Cold War all over our planet today, civil wars, rampant corruption etc. I could write a book on this! ( having being born and lived in a part of Africa, i.e Tanzania & Kenya, from birth until I finished secondary schooling)
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Rank: Super forum user
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I was actually quite impressed with the actions I saw in Morocco. The taxi driver trying to park may well have been obstructing the bus, not allowing it to access it's designated area properly, I don't know. Whatever, the police officer obviously belioeved the taxi driver was in the wrong. Swift judgement taken on the spot (he didn't even seem to argue).
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Rank: Super forum user
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Andy/Motorhead's response suggests that the UK Border Agency or at least some of its people have a very strict interpretation of the rules about gifts and hospitality. Also, perhaps their stance might be a precaution against the possibility of being drugged in the course of their work. Some of their 'customers' will strongly resent what they do, especially if it leads to incarceration and deportation.
HSE inspectors generally shouldn't have a problem with accepting minimal cost refreshments such as tea or coffee and biscuits. Also, unless HSE system/culture (following Civil Service rules) has changed in recent years, it would be okay for an inspector spending considerable time inspecting sizeable premises to be given lunch in the works canteen/restaurant along with the manager, safety adviser or whoever else is showing him round. By contrast, going out to an expensive restaurant for a meal sponsored by the company being inspected would not be okay.
On the same subject, despite the media dissemination of evidence from witnesses at the ongoing Leveson Enquiry, it's perhaps best at present not to ruminate about police force rules regarding gifts & hospitality.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Well, that was interesting,
The comments and stories were very enlightening - thank you
Jay, whilst I take your point re criticising other nations and their systems, firstly I don't detect any criticism here beyond making comparisons and telling stories of experiences around the world. And if I'm honest I think your comment re having the basic aspects of national governance in place at Independance is, in the case of Zimbabwe, slightly off,
Jim
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