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PhilSmith1981  
#1 Posted : 23 March 2012 14:29:00(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
PhilSmith1981

Reading a story on SHPonline, today and the Treasury now seem to have set their sights on reducing the H&S legislation by up to 84%.

It begs the question, what will we have left to work with?

For those that have read the Loftstedt report and were fortunte enough to hear the man speak at the IOSH Conference earlier this month, it is evident that whislt Prof. Loftstedt agrees that the vast majority of legislation is acceptable, and does not need scrapping (after evidence gathered from the 'Red-tape challenge' the Government seem to be unhappy with the answers they got for their money, so now they appear to be picking figures out of the air to reduce the 'burden'.

I dispare, I really do.

Have a read, http://www.shponline.co....ion-to-be-left-untouched and let me know your thoughts.

achrn  
#2 Posted : 23 March 2012 14:37:01(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
achrn

The 84% is not to be cut - it's to be cut or improved.

It's in teh budget speech - "To reduce the costs and barriers that regulation and administrative burdens impose on businesses, the Government ... will scrap or improve 84 per cent of health and safety regulation"

I was discussing this with someone yesterday - does anyone know how they've come up with 84% (why not 83%, why not 85%). The IOSH article indicates that it's "167 of the 199 health and safety regulations considered as part of the Red Tape Challenge", and 167 is 84% of 199, but why 167, why not 166 or 168?

Does anyone know any rational basis for the numbers?
ianjones  
#3 Posted : 23 March 2012 14:49:25(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
ianjones

I listened to Professor Loftstedt at the health and wellbeing conference

he stated that the 50% reduction in HS legislation quoted by David Cameron was not his figure

He further said that the only way to get to this figure was to take the
consolidation of all the mining regulations into 1 or 2 regulations which would result in a 33% drop in legislation - but the impact of the legislation would remain the same!

then add in a further 17% from old regs such as the pottery and cellouid regs

all in all, nothing that will affect the majority of us but gives David something to avoid
rather than talk about the professor's main point of the review.

"That health and safety in this country is fit for purpose"
Ron Hunter  
#4 Posted : 23 March 2012 15:16:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Forgive me, but what has Health and Safety Legislation to do with the Chancellor, the Budget or the Treasury?
PIKEMAN  
#5 Posted : 23 March 2012 15:18:40(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
PIKEMAN

I could get rid of a couple of regs instantly, namely Asbestos and Lead. Make them appendices to COSHH. Job done.

I once asked a HSE inspector why not? The response was that they were so hazardous that "they need their own regulations" .......................err, in that case why don't we have Cyanide at work regs, Hydrogen Shulphide, Carbon Monoxide, Benzene regs.............and so on........................ the reply was.............. cue awkward silence.
Clairel  
#6 Posted : 23 March 2012 15:29:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Clairel

Doesn't make any difference if they axe loads of Regs because the Act still remains the same, which is all encompassing.

Don't forget that we also have comply with European Directives and so we can't just axe loads of Regs on a whim.

Some of the Regs need axing or sliming down anyway though, IMO.
achrn  
#7 Posted : 23 March 2012 16:12:58(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
achrn

ianjones wrote:
I listened to Professor Loftstedt at the health and wellbeing conference

he stated that the 50% reduction in HS legislation quoted by David Cameron was not his figure



It's absolutely not his figure. Lofstedt says (P32) "the vast majority of employers and employer organisations acknowledged the importance of health and safety regulation in their responses to the call for evidence and felt that, in general, the regulations were broadly fit for purpose. During the course of my review, I have neither seen nor heard any evidence to suggest that there is a case for radically altering or stripping back current health and safety regulation."

The government response to that (Grayling, House of Commons, 23/1/2012) "The Löfstedt report, which we published in November, recommends significant changes to our regulatory regime. We accepted the recommendations and, with other planned changes, we aim to reduce the total number of health and safety regulations by 50% by 2014" Read it here: http://www.publications....-0001.htm#12012313000016

So Lofstedt explicitly says "there's no need to cut the regs" and the government response is "we agree, we'll cut the regs by 50%"
jay  
#8 Posted : 23 March 2012 17:02:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jay

It is in the budget document "Budget 2012", Pages 45 & 46

http://cdn.hm-treasury.g.../budget2012_complete.pdf



Reducing burdens on business--

1.237 To reduce the costs and barriers that regulation and administrative burdens impose on businesses, the Government:

• will improve and reform the Enterprise Management Incentive scheme (EMI), which helps SMEs recruit and retain talent, by providing additional support to help start-ups access the scheme;

• by consulting on amending restrictions that currently prevent the scheme being used by academics employed by start-ups, and by more than doubling the individual grant limit to £250,000, subject to State aid approval;

• will consult on simplifying the Carbon Reduction Commitment (CRC) energy efficiency scheme to reduce administrative burdens on business. Should very significant administrative savings not be deliverable, the Government will bring forward proposals in autumn 2012 to replace CRC revenues with an alternative environmental tax, and will engage with business before then to identify potential options;

• will scrap or improve 84 per cent of health and safety regulation, including legislating in 2012 so that ‘strict liability’ provisions in health and safety law will no longer hold employers to be in breach of their duties when they have done everything that is reasonably practicable and foreseeable to protect their employees;


• will rationalise environmental regulation to reduce costs to business by at least £1 billion over five years without reducing environmental protections, including introducing new contaminated land guidance in April 2012, which will save business £140 million per year;

• will launch sector-based reviews of regulation from April 2012 to ensure regulation is enforced at the lowest possible cost to business, starting with chemicals manufacturing, volunteer events and small businesses in food manufacturing; and

• has examined around 1,500 regulations through the Red Tape Challenge, over half of which will be scrapped or improved. The Government has also achieved a cumulative net reduction of regulation since January 2011 worth £3.3 billion to business, with 19 deregulatory measures taking effect in the first half of 2012.

peter gotch  
#9 Posted : 23 March 2012 17:28:59(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Phil

It's almost all political spiel.

Lord Young identified 200 odd pieces of legislation that were a "burden on business".

These included

(a) Quite a lot of regs that were revoking or repealing legislation - how are these a burden!?!? A little housekeeping will reduce the 200 with zero impact on burden or otherwise...

.....except that HSE has to divert staff into policy divisions to draft the Consultation Documents that are required before revoking legislation.

....currently consulting about getting rid of 7 codes of legislation that long since had any impact whatsoever.

....so we are resourcing eliminating a Norwegian Blue parrot regulation that was already dead.

....and some of us have to read the CD to check that they're not deregulating what ought to stay in place. More resource input re said Norwegian Blue.

(b) Regs resulting in minor amendment to legislation.

....but we've now got the rule one out before one in.....so rather than simply amend the Control of Asbestos Regs, with a nice short code that tells you in very short text what changes, we start from scratch, so that you have to examine the legislation to find where the changes are. More resource, except that this time the parrot is only a chick.

Strangely we haven't applied the same approach to the amendment to RIDDOR. But, if we had might have flagged up the continued requirement to RECORD over 3 day injury accidents....with the increase in burden being more obvious, unless you think that the Govt is cynically assuming that most of UK plc will miss this subtelty.

(c) Legislation that is sector specific so that for the vast majority of UK plc absolutely no impact.

So what we'll do with this and possibly hazard specific legislation (such as COSHH, asbestos and lead - as commented above - last time possible consolidation discussed I had similar comment - what about the Control of Mercury at Work Regs then? Silence....) is consolidate, cutting the total number of CODES of legislation by a huge percentage whilst not actually doing much to reduce the total number of REGULATIONS.



RayRapp  
#10 Posted : 23 March 2012 19:58:08(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

The principal regulations that most of us deal with day in day out will remain the same. It is nothing more than window dressing by the government - and they know it. I find it ironic, even perverse, that this government are reducing the so-called regulatory burden on employers whilst at the same time proposing to introduce Fee For Intervention. Now that will really help struggling businesses!
Ron Hunter  
#11 Posted : 23 March 2012 20:34:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Thanks for the link, Jay. More of a reiteration of a political manifesto than a Budget paper.
Looks like the Orwellian Dystopia is well and truly established then.
Argyll  
#12 Posted : 24 March 2012 03:31:08(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Argyll

We went through this same process here in western Canada some years ago, with a right-wing pro free-enterprise government, that had a "Minister of Deregulation" . Since the regulation making process here has always included significant stakeholder (read "industry") involvement, there were few requirements that could be dumped without significant impact on worker safety, and ultimately the assessment rates of employers. Since optics are sadly of prime importance for governments of almost all political stripes (not a positive reflection on the electorate overall, is it?), hundreds of regulations were removed, although the same obligations were simply transferred into much less visible, but equally obligatory guidelines or policy, such that those with little familiarity with how the system actually works (e.g. many employers) were pleased that their political advocates had reduced the burden the raving socialist hordes had place upon them that fettered initiative, economic activity and were a general scourge on society....
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