We work on and off the highway and includes country and busy roads. While our procedures do not stipulate exactly what to wear and when besides hi-viz vests (not yet anyway), I say a road is a road and full hi-viz should be worn (vest and trousers). I am just getting familiar with Chapter 8 specs as it is a large document. Does anyone have any comments on this situation or know exactly where in ch8 that stresses what to wear. Our work is carrying out seismic surveys which starts with a crew of people laying small light weight cables along the ground, then large vibroseis wheeled machines come along and stop every now and then to vibrate the ground and record data, then the crew pick-up the cables to move ahead of the machines again. StuartR

chapter 8 is just a guide and its your risk asessment that points you in the direction of what is to be worn - the areas about road types and speeds is also a bit out of place as again its the risk present not just the type of road that is the managing factor

Bob Youel Thanks Bob, risk assessment has been completed but requires amending to be more specific. Its also management input required to agree what measures/recommendation is made and supported. That way, it is specific to the job/task, as Advisors we are not managers who ultimately control personnel but give support, advice and assistance where necessary. StuartR

You are assuming that he is trying to avoid spending the money. It might be nothing about money - the original posting was "our procedures do not stipulate exactly what to wear and when". The question may be (effectively) ' shall I mandate full hi-vis on all our crews (and in doing so severely [expletive deleted] them off)'? Why the assumption that it's someone intent on saving money? I've had the same - I post a question on this forum, and get blasted for being a skin-flint playing with people's lives (OK, I exaggerate a little), when budget was no part of the question.

Stuart & achrn.... the point that I was trying to make was that, irrespective of the employers intention, it is highly likely that a jury will focus on the money, post accident, [unless you were able to demonstrate to the jury a different justification for only using waistcoats]. I am sorry if either of you felt affronted. Impact Protection Vehicles [IPV] should certainly be considered where you have more than one lane on the side of the carriageway where you are working. There are operational problems in trying to use them where you only have a single lane on your side. The main issue is that to overtake the IPV, vehicles have to cross into the oncoming traffic lane. If they don't allow sufficient gap to complete the overtake, or they misjudge the length of the mobile work-zone they are 'forced' to cut back into the work-zone with potentially nasty consequences.

Just a quick comment when discussing full hi vis one must NOT forget that trousers also form part of such a definition. The specifications cover the amount of retroflective material and the area of hi vis yellow or orange. The standard vest does not really match up to any real standard for work on the public highway, although some of the polo shirts now do so. Bob

some great advice/opinions here My additional thoughs are that we also need to account for sun burn, sweat, humidity etc. so all in all the PPE provided should give as much contrast colour as possible for the whole body whilst allowing for workability when wearing such kit and it should afford protection from the sun etc. Money: Whilst money was not mentioned in the origional question if one set of PPE costs more that another set of PPE in most cases the cheapest will be procured as most kitty holders have no idea about anything else but basic costs After care: Much of the PPE you see on road works have never been cleaned so management also need to allow for the cost of cleaning

Worth mentioning that some traffic/road work involving digging trenches has the risk of damage/contact with electrical services, and possible explosion, and full HI-VIS kit should be mandatory, if the risk is significant, and be flame-resistant.

Off at a tangent: I was sat in a jam on the M1 yesterday, roadworkers all around me were clad head to toe in hi viz but most of it was so mucky it was a waste of time. Contract firms just "going though the motions & ticking boxes" ?

To add to the various responses made already, and in no particular order. Firstly I would tend to agree that ‘full hi vis’ including trousers may well be appropriate regardless of the road speed i.e. class 3 where it might not be recommended by either the ‘red book’ or TSM Ch 8. You can generally apply ‘red book’ rules to ‘low speed’ roads and TSM Ch8 to ‘high speed’ roads i.e. dual carriageways 50 mph + and motorways. When bending down etc the amount of hi vis actually visible can be dramatically reduced so anything that you can do to increase the amount of hi vis showing is ‘welcome’. Many road agencies are now using a combination of yellow and orange hi vis, and I personally think that the contrast is generally very effective Be aware that if you work in Northern Ireland, TSM Ch 8 can have a different legal status, and that it CAN have statutory force, not just a guide. Much of TSM Ch8 is based on the red book and this does have legal force under NRSWA My understanding from an HSE inspector is that the class 3 etc applies to the upper garment only and not the trousers i.e. you can’t use the trousers to ‘boost’ the area of colour of a ‘bib’ to ensure class 3. That is what I have been led to understand but happy to stand corrected. Not all long sleeved jackets are full class 3. It is possible that some might not be class 3 at all. You need to check this during purchasing and check the label. I have a fleece that is class 3 for the colour part of the standard but class 2 for the reflective part of the standard. Sleeves in themselves are NOT a reliable indicator of the class. Check the label. While I agree that your RA should be the ‘driver’ for your PPE choice, and you should consider all relevant factors, in addition to speed and type, such as time of the day, traffic flows, traffic type, weather, visibility etc. If working on a HA highway I believe that you are required to wear the standard that they require, or they may take you to task. Also be aware that the highway is NOT just the carriageway or traffic lane but also includes footway, verges etc. Depending on the circumstances you may also need to use traffic management signage etc and if that is the case your operatives should be LANTRA trained, off the top of my head 12D T1/2 a/b The label will indicate how many washes! Ramble over!

canopener, Thank you! Found the small print on labels which says (on both trousers and polo shirt that I have), 25 washes Thanks, John.

I think there is a particular risk about the work you are doing as it is not probably very conspicuous to the passing motorist. I would encourage the maxing out on the Hi Vis to make drivers aware of your presence sooner rather than later and I am a believer in the cultural bit of workers on the road looking the part and that they are meant to be there. So nice clean good quality Hi vis so the workforce are pleased to wear it.