Are you, like me , fed up hearing politician's blaming health and safety for that's wrong in industrial society?. "Health and safety is ruining the country" blah blah blah. This was part of the discussion at the West of Scotland Branch meeting today - and one suggestion was made that I would suggest we consider. Why don't we (You) challenge such comments - when the comment is wrong - refute it, preferably by giving sensible answers or examples of the real benefits since HASAW 1974. Responses could be made to Politician's, including asking your local MP where he or she stands on the issue, press stories - and even the guy in the pub. Don't let us leave it all to the Institution - let's start fighting back and be proud of our health and safety profession. Let's have your thoughts Chas McBreen

Chas A very pertinent topic to raise and good for the West of Scotland Branch to have discussed it today. Other branches, districts and sections within the IOSH network ought to have similar discussions if they don't already do so. One aspect to discuss is what members perceive IOSH to be: When you write "don't leave it to the Institition", I guess you are thinking of people like members of the IOSH Presidential Team plus senior people from IOSH HQ whose work includes involvement with the media and trying to influence politicians and political parties, etc. However, though such people may be senior representatives of IOSH, surely IOSH comprises all of us who are members of the Institution. If we care about what we do in OS&H and why, surely each of should be an IOSH ambassador and take whatever opportunities we can to try to spread the message that real OS&H is about enabling, not banning and an intregal part of good business - e.g. as highlighted by IOSH's Li£esaving campaign. What sort of opportunities are there for us? To echo one of my pet themes on this forum, one good opportunity lies in how each of us respond when asked "what do you?" (i.e. what's your occupation?). For my own part I'm happy to say I work in occupational safety & health and then add, crucially, that it's considerably different from what the press, public and politicians perceive and portray as 'health & safety' alias 'elf n safety'. This can lead to some interesting and constructive discussions. That's just one type of opportunity in my view. Chas, you've suggested responding to press reports about silly 'elf n safety' stories and daft utterances by politicians. Can other forum users suggest other types of opportunities?

John, I have done exactly that over here in the Republic, hence we do not get "elf and safety" stories in the media or politicians using us as an excuse because they know they'll be challenged professionally and robustly. Regards, Ciarán

Also took part in the red tape challenge as I know a lot of IOSH H&S professionals did - especially correcting illinformed ElfnSafety gone mad type comments on the red tape challenge website. The only slight irritation I find with complaining or commenting on newspaper sites it that you have to sign up to their forums which is a bit off putting sometimes. I also put a link on here to a rap on YouTube about DC blaming H&S on the riots! There's lots of ways we can each do our bit!

The problem is that politicians have access to the media. If a minister says something, no matter how daft it gets in the papers. I can explain to the people when I am out and about why we do H&S and they almost always agree usually along the lines of “Well that’s proper H&S, but what about that story I read in the Daily Mail...” . The impact of this is limited and nothing compared to stories in media. In this country ( sorry but we are a lot bigger than Ireland) there are more stores competing for attention and so the media only run ‘interesting’ stories eg examples of daft H&S. They are not interested in stories about how H&S saves lives and makes workplaces better places to be. I suspect that this anti H&S bias is now so ingrained that even opposition politician are now a bit scared of rock the consensus that H&S is rubbish.

Well done, mate. Having sorted things in the Republic do you fancy coming over here and doing some missionary work.

Dear All It is an ongoing issue and you take your chances as and when they arise. On the publication of the Consultation Document about repealing the first 7 Statutory Instruments I wrote to Bro Grayling and asked how much will be saved by employers in the UK by repealing them. He doesn't know. This was part of an exercise marrying up what the Ministers say and what really happens. Another part is the analysis and classification I have done of the 689 responses - so far - on general health and safety regulations Red Tape Challenge stlye. It provides great contradictory material. Nowhere does it provide any evidence to amend 84% of H&S Regs. Yet Ministers [including Teasury] used the Red Tape Challenge responces as providing support for this bizarre figure. Opportunities will arise where we can challenge the various players in the political system about some of the more outrageous aspects of public posturing. We must accept - of course - that there are some issues that have been raised which need to be addressed. However the issue is a political one. The final proof of this was the way the ConDems brought in their own fantasy figure for to 'improve or scrap' 84% of H&S law, having igonred the findings of the Review by Prof Lofstedt, which was given a remit of being an 'evidence based' review. You just have to keep at it! Cheers. Nigel

Right about what exactly?

Commenting on the Henman Hill scenarion Gramsay said that it was the HSE that pointed out "...how daft it was." But perhaps it should be recalled that (as far as I understand matters) the Lawn Tennis Association sought the advice of their H&S "person", carried out a risk assessment and decided that the risk of injuries e.g. someone sliding from the top and hitting someone standing at the bottom was too great. They conducted a risk based analysis and were then criticised.... their Chief Exec was rightly angry about what was perceived to be the HSE/Judith Hackett "shooting from the hip" without all the facts. Phil

I think safety and performance in many engineering/chemical disciplines is incredibly important. But trying to apply and enforce it into day to day things sometimes leaves one open to the predictable ridicule. I'm not even sure 'safety' is a standalone discipline. Culture might be, but safety is just one output of a particular culture

you're right, but there are miles of meaningless red tape that doesn't really serve a purpose. Like I said, I'd challenge whether safety is a discipline in its own right, and do wonder whether efforts should be directed into the wider subject of behaviour and culture. It may address far more important societal things than people falling over. Just a thought

no, I was thinking more of issues more to do with society itself -peoples beliefs and expectations that drive them to behave a certain way Perhaps somewhere between a behavioural specialist and a social worker. Some of the attitudes and beliefs that come from society lead to lots of situations society can afford to do without. Some attitudes are passed on to the workplace so there's an opportunity for your safety records to improve too. But it goes well beyond safety. Perhaps it's one for another generation. Anyway, it's me bingo neet. Bye!

But that is an extreme case and not the normal outcome from a slip or trip. And if you then you go on and on to staff about not leaving anything on floors because once someone had a extreme outcome to a trip over a box file then everyone begins to hate and mock health and safety. Proportionate advice is what is needed so that poeple undertsand that H&S can be proportionate and not based on the most unlikely outcomes, no matter how unfortunate those outcomes are.

I was asked by the mothers union to do presentation on safety in the home. I took the opportunity to do 'true or false' health and safety quiz starting with conkers banned in schools. I asked for a show of 20/20 hands that it was true. After each answer I held up a poster of the HSEs myth of the month to proove they were false. On my tenth and final question most of the group had cottoned on but there was one lady going for 100% incorrect answers. As I finished she said 'are you sure your right' I confirmed I was and asked if she was a daily mail reader. Unsurprisingly she was. At least at the end she came and thanked me for being a 'nice health and safety man, not like the ones you usually read about'?!?

I wonde how long this will be up?? I believe that the greatest threat to H&S in this country is Ian Duncan Smith with his ill conceived ideas of getting disabled people back to work even if their own doctors state thay are incapable of work. My basis for this is the ill constructed tick box questionnaires used by DWP and their contractors to assess persons. It is not just stupid ill considered ideas of H&S legislation we need to challenge but the whole mind set that these politicians have, especially IDS who seems set on elevating the risks to others also at work. Yes I have informed DC, the chair of the conservatives and IDS himself but the answer always is the same senseless arguments about fraud. Are people aware that the DWP themselves state the fraud level for Disability Allowances are only about 1%. Yes these politicians are but they seem determined to put disabled people at risk, and potentially their work colleagues, for their own ends. Bob