Hi, I recently found myself in two minds regarding an issue and looking for other opinions.

Traditionally, in the event of a fire alarm we've permitted the shift foremen to shut down some of our equipment safely before evacuating (taking an extra 2-3 mins). We do this as there is no easy way of shutting them down safely and quickly and leaving them running unmanned is potentially hazardous to the fire brigade should they need to enter the building and could actually result in a fire in their own right.

This was agreed with the fire brigade at the time and as long as we knew who was in the building at the time of the brigades arrival it would be ok.

We recently had a false signal and the new officer castigated us for not ensuring everyone was out ASAP and that machinery hazards etc. are secondary to life preservation. I can see both views in the argument so was just wondering what other people did?

Do your machines not have E-Stops ?

In my previous company, which had a number of large machines each operated by a crew, the instruction to operators was to activate the E-Stop and then promtly evacuate.

I agree with the new officer, everybody should evacuate the building promptly. Why dont the operators switch off the equipment, (or is it un-manned ?), before evacuating instead of the Foreman ?

This would have the desired result of both shutting machines down and completing the evacuation in a shorter time.

The machines do have e-stops but the way each machine is configured is that its essentially 5 or 6 machines that run in series with one production stage running in to the next. The e-stops are configured so that they only operate the section to which they are attached so hitting the emergency stop would not stop the entire production process. It may be possible to link them so that they do stop the entire production run but stopping the machine in such a way can lead to additional problems e.g. overheating, ejection of hot material etc.

The machines are largely automated requiring little human interaction beyond the initial start up and ensuring the supply of materials are constant.

I've spoken to a few managers that used to work in your industry and they have come back with different options. One has a structured shutdown leaving 2 people in the building to bring the process to a controlled stop, their procedure includes making sure that there are a couple of escape direction options, obviously if the fire is in that area, then it wouldn't make any difference as they would get out immediately anyway.
The other site always just hit the stops and dealt with the clean up afterwards.

To me, as long as it was a controlled procedure with good communication to the incident controller, and well practiced, then it shouldn't be a problem.

lets not make fire chiefs out as daft, a safety officer doesnt have to go in to the fire a fire chief and officers do, if the machinary needs to be turned off, there is always a way to do it from outside re red switch

Paul,

I think the "Red Switch" David refers to is otherwise known as a Firemans Switch. I don't have a copy of the 17th edition wiring regs to hand but there are some restrictions on the voltages, location, height, operation and design etc which make it quite an interesting piece of electrical isolator kit.

From memory no more than 2.75 m above ground (think about the height) with the OFF position at the top so it can be pushed off from below but not easily accessed by the local trouble makers etc - believe the fire service carry special poles for just such opeations.

BUT, don't take my word for it, ask a sparks....

Jim

david,
NO there is NOT.
Why should there be?

Firemans switches are in my experience, not that common

Outside of hazardous areas covered by COMPEX and the special requirements for petrol filling stations.

The only requirement under BS7671 for a Firefighter's switch is in Regulation group 537.6.
Specifically 537.6.1
A firefighter's switch shall be provided in the low voltage circuit supplying
(i) exterior electrical installations operating at a voltage exceeding low voltage, and
(ii) interior discharge lighting installations operating at a voltage exceeding low voltage.

So in case (i) you would be looking at a supply with a step up transformer, or discharge lighting, such as neon signage.
In case (ii) you could have any discharge lighting such as neon signs operating at above low voltage.

It goes on to other things.
However, these are very limited requirements.
There are very few high voltage installs anyway in private premises, most of the HV system in the UK is owned and operated by the NG & the DNO's.
Yes there are HV systems in hospitals which will be under the control of the hospital, Corus have their own HV as do many other places, but the majority is in the distribution network around the UK.

As far as discharge lighting goes, this is where the risk is to the fire fighters as they can operate above 1000V, thus above the limit for low voltage.
Please remember that 400V is not classed as high voltage, the limit is 1000V a.c. or 1500V d.c. it is above this which is classed as high voltage.

In the event of a real high voltage supply, involved in a fire then almost certainly there would be a shut down of the supplies perhaps via the DNO or NG, or, the site SAP.
The precautions taken when cutting HV cables are not insignificant, they ain't done live often if ever.

Firefighter's switches are common on petrol stations shopping centres etc. where neon type signage is common.
Elsewhere, not that common, as there is no requirement in the wiring regulations for this, and no need for it either.

messy,
That is not far off the 7671 requirements taken from the 2011 Amd. as it applies to discharge lighting and nowt else.
I did not reproduce the whole of the 7671 reg group in my post for fear of infringing copyright, but it is very similar.
However, there are few if any electricians who will know or care about this, as, it is a client issue and they won't know, or care about it.
Right or wrong, not my call.
However, that is the way it will be, like it or not.

Outside the realm of RRFSO "experts" who would be that familiar with this requirement.

One thing though is it requires compliance with an out of date version of BS7671, it refers to the 2002 16th version, we have moved on since then! ;)

I also believe from a cursory read of both this & the current version of 7671 that if he electrician complied with 7671 he would comply with the RRFSO.